VOTE SECEDE HARDERER!

Fond as I am of at least some of those calling for it, secession is a non-starter. Big fat caveat: I’ve already declared myself all in for the nullification idea, and I still feel that way. But that doesn’t mean I have high hopes that it will work. Ultimately, the roadblock obstructing secession is simple: FederalGovCo absitively, posolutely WILL NOT let it happen without a fight. Ask somebody from the Confederate States of Americans how it worked out last time around. I see no reason to think that FederalGovCo’s position towards secession has mellowed; the roadblock still stands, as impassable as it ever was.

With nullification the same roadblock looms, but it is at least conceivable that a way could be found for the several states to pull it off without sparking a violent response. It’s a remote possibility to be sure, but a possibility nonetheless. I don’t have a whole lot of faith in it, but it does exist.

Secession, though? Not a chance.

Secede where? From whom?

You live in a purple state, in a purple country, and in which no legitimate election can ever be expected from now on. Times 50 states.

You want to oppose the illegitimate government, product of a wholly fraudulent election?

Bravo. So do I, and so do millions more.

But this isn’t 1861, and you have no safe space to retreat to where your values hold sway, nor where you are and will be in the majority, nor will such ever be left alone by the other side. They never have, they never will, and they don’t care about the inevitable consequence of that course of action.

Ask Georgians how that plan worked out for them in January.

Secession is a myth, based on a delusion. The idea is laughably ridiculous, doubly so given how it worked out the last time it was attempted.

Aesop is specifically flensing TL Davis’s mention of the secession fantasy in his most recent piece, but seems to me that maybe TL isn’t necessarily all that dreamy-eyed and damp about its chances for success himself. To wit:

The question of secession arises simply because there is no other resort. It is not something arrived at easily and it doesn’t solve all problems. There is still a virulent strain of communism running through all of our institutions that would have to be dealt with, many of which are easily corrected if the Constitution were adhered to, something each state can enforce individually, even without secession, but where is the will to do that?

People who will not carry their torches and pitchforks to their state capitols will not force those political bodies to defend their rights. Trust me, I am with the resistance. I will stand with any who stand with me. It is now, or never.

YMMV, as always, but that sounds less to me like 1) enthusiastic endorsement from a naive fever-dreamer of a course of action he is confident will resolve our conundrum satisfactorily, and more like B) a patriot casting desperately about for an option, ANY option, that might possibly lead to a relatively peaceful way out of this. Unfortunately for all red-blooded Americans, the questions TL poses next all have the same answer.

If it is to be a peaceful resistance, let me know which road to take that leads us toward faithful public servants. Which road leads to undeniable and unmodified rights? Which road leads to fiscally responsible government? Which road leads to quality education for our children? Which road leads to reliable power supply and energy independence? Which road leads to unencumbered commerce? Which road leads to more employment? Which road leads to prosperity? Which road leads to a secure border? Which road leads to a military focused on defense of the nation?

Difficult questions, although from this side of the Great Divide they’re more likely to be viewed as basic, elementary—the stuff of grade-school civics and history classes, I mean c’mon DUH. A huge complexifying factor in treating such questions as something other than idle woolgathering, with little real-world relevance, is that The Enemy has no desire whatsoever to travel those roads in the first place. To them, not one of the destinations suggested by TL is appealing. I doubt you’d even been able to get them into the car at all, without either some elaborate trickery or a physical struggle.

To boil it down, then, TL is seeking a route to peaceful coexistence, as a free and properly-governed people, with Communists. Alas, no such route exists, or ever really has. Due to the nature of both Communism and its adherents, no such route CAN exist. We’re stalled at a dead-end, and Aesop knows there’s only one way out.

This isn’t going to be won at ballot boxes, protests, strongly-worded letters, nor brilliant legal opinions.

No one you’re talking to in those forums cares.

Write that on your hand, lest ye forget.

This is going to be a cage match to the death, and it isn’t over until there’s only one side left standing. And that’s true whether you fight, or surrender. All giving up changes is how fast you get on the boxcars.

And if you choose to fight, it’s going to be fought house to house, floor to floor, and in some families, room to room. In every town and city in every state. Some will be easier than others, but no place is 100% anything. For now.

When that penny drops, and the range goes hot in both directions, you’ll be at the starting line.

The finish line is  a long, long way off, even at that point.

But at least people will be in the right event.

S’truth. And, as I keep saying, nobody has to like it. I most certainly don’t. Personally, I would much prefer to live out my remaining days in a nation NOT riven by strife, deprivation, and calamity—grubbing for meager sustenance to fend off starvation; constantly sidestepping a ruthlessly despotic government as best I can; completely surrounded by bleating nitwits accepting of their own subjugation, in blissful ignorance of their ignominy.

I had hoped to die gently in my sleep, my loved ones close at hand to see me on my way. But NOOOOOO. LIKE it? RUFKM?!? Man, I am too old for this shit.

Trust me, I absolutely HATE that this conflict has been forced upon on us. But forced upon us it has been. We all knew this day would come. Now that it has, facts must be squarely and honestly faced. There are tough choices to be made. What do I truly, deeply believe in? Am I willing to fight for my beliefs—to die in defense of them, if I must? What is my duty—to myself, to my family, to my neighbor, to my country? What does duty, what does honor, require of me? When should I act, how will I know the time is right to act, and what actions should I take?

War is coming. It won’t be pretty, or easy, or brief. Victory for Truth, Justice, and the American Way is by no means assured. It is entirely possible (if not damned likely) that it will not end well, for anybody.

Gird your loins.

111 thoughts on “VOTE SECEDE HARDERER!

  1. The problem that I have with Aesop is that he went full Covidian and stayed there. “Be brave and fight the revolution!” doesn’t exactly sit side by side with “Cower in your homes and wear four masks because the flu!”

    Once someone has gone full MasKaren, I can never take their intellect seriously anymore. That goes for both Aesop and Bill Quick, who went full pants shitting retard and then wants to pretend that he didn’t.

    I now read both of then for amusement only.

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    1. That was when so little was known about the China virus and when conflicting reports about its danger started emerging. Add to that the all-too-believable suspicion that the ChiComs had unleashed a bioweapon on the world.

      Signed, Barry and Ken’s favorite punching bag.

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      1. You’re actually one of the chinese’s favorite punching bag. You promoted their virus to political gains for them.
        The chinaVirus probably is a chinese bio-weapon. I certainly believe it. What we didn’t believe was the fake data, the fake numbers, all obvious. What we told you was the truth and only the truth, and we were at least 95% right.

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      2. Nonsense. We knew enough about the Chinavirus by the end of January to know this wasn’t much more than the flu. There have been essentially three paths taken by the Covidians:

        1. Stay full bitch-boy, double and triple down. This has been Aesop’s approach. He still rips out the occasional post calling normal, thinking people Gilligans, etc. If the SHTF, Aesop will be leading people onto the boxcars before meekly getting in himself.

        2. Pretend they didn’t go full retard. This has been Bill’s tack. He even had a post referring to ‘overly feminized men who fed the hysteria’ last week, while failing to note that HE was one such ‘man.’ He has swiftly banned any commenters who have called him out on it, and has done his best to push his Covidianism down the Memory Hole.

        3. Acknowledge they were wrong. This is by far the most rare.

        Whichever group you fall into, you have shown yourself to he a third rate intellect and have all the hysteria of a 13 year old girl. And you have, in your own small way, contributed to the absolute destruction of freedom in this country and deserve nothing but scorn.

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      3. Nonsense. We knew enough about the Chinavirus by the end of January to know this wasn’t much more than the flu. There have been essentially three paths taken by the Covidians:

        1. Stay full bitch-boy, double and triple down. This has been Aesop’s approach. He still rips out the occasional post calling normal, thinking people Gilligans, etc. If the SHTF, Aesop will be leading people onto the boxcars before meekly getting in himself.

        2. Pretend they didn’t go full retard. This has been Bill’s tack. He even had a post referring to ‘overly feminized men who fed the hysteria’ last week, while failing to note that HE was one such ‘man.’ He has swiftly banned any commenters who have called him out on it, and has done his best to push his Covidianism down the Memory Hole.

        3. Acknowledge they were wrong. This is by far the most rare.

        Whichever group you fall into, you have shown yourself to he a third rate intellect and have all the hysteria of a 13 year old girl. And you have, in your own small way, contributed to the absolute destruction of freedom in this country and deserve nothing but scorn.

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        1. It’s quite amazing that your Royal We knew almost immediately all there was to know about a mysterious illness (at the end of January no less) that even most in the medical community knew little about.

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          1. And yet we did express major skepticism.

            So, I guess we can use logic and data without wetting our pants, unlike you.

            Oooooh, now call me a name.

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            1. That’s not what Skeptic said. He said, as part of the We, that he KNEW, and before most people even had much of an inkling about the Chinavirus. Even Trump’s team didn’t know what the best path forward was at the time.

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              1. That’s what I said and that’s what I meant. See, those of us who were logical began with the premise that this is just another flu variant, and waited to be persuaded that it was something else, based on facts and data. The first factual data that could be trusted came from Italy, where they have the oldest population in Europe and the health care system sucks. Even so, the average age of death was about 80. Hence, like the flu, it was most threatening to the old and infirm. Nothing to get all worked up about.

                You and the rest of the pants shutters, meanwhile, screamed “WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE!” and proved yourselves illogical and hysterical.

                If we needed more verification, the Diamond Princess was it. Even in the worst possible scenario for viral transmission, about 25% of the passengers were infected and only 10 deaths out of about 3000 mostly geriatric passengers.

                Trump’s medical team? Like that’s a fucking yardstick. They are bureaucrats with medical degrees and not to be trusted.

                You’re an idiot.

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                1. That is what I meant by skepticism.

                  We have not had a major “plague” in this Country for 50 years. Even the 68 Hong Kong Flu outbreak didn’t rise to that level.

                  There was no initial data to indicate that outsiee of stupid dense urban hellholes this was going to be a problem.

                  Otherwise, as a bioweapon, it would already had been a problem.

                  Bioweapons would spread like wildfire, and kill young strong people. When it didn’t then the “show me” approach was the right approach. The Diamond Princess showed me, and a lot of other logical minded people, we were NOT facing a “plague” or a bioweapon.

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                2. PS Milan Italy had a high concentration of shoe factory workers imported as slave labor from…WUHAN!

                  All of whom went to China and then came back after holiday.

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                  1. And the CCP knew they were coming back to Italy with the virus.
                    The Italians have hundreds of thousands of chinese workers in factories now owned by the chinese.

                    Everyone keeps thinking a bioweapon has to be a super killer. No, the one the chinese unleashed upon us has done the job they wanted just fine.

                    1. Learning about the Chinese owned and staffed factories in Italy was an eye opener and a real red flag for many.

                3. Hey Skeptic, Trump’s team included non-medical types. I heard that even Trump was on the Trump team.

                  It’s funny how your premise mutated so fast into We knew by the end of January based a few reports out of Italy.

                  By the way, the first official confirmation of the Chinavirus’ spread to Italy was January 31, FWIW.

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                  1. Here’s where henryKaren tries to rewrite history. It doesn’t matter if you are off a few weeks in the timeline Skeptic, the fact is henryKaren was a hysterical ass about it. And remains an apologist for the left.

                    Jan 21 – the first case in the US – cases in Asia reported earlier

                    Jan 23 – somethings up as china locks Wuhan down

                    Jan 30 – WHO declares global emergency

                    Feb 5 – Diamond Princess quarantined

                    So, by early Feb at least we knew there was a virus spreading, that the CCP was involved, and that its epicenter was Wuhan. News went downhill from there.

                    By the end of Feb and into March we knew it was being used to create hysteria, including the wearing of masks that have near zero effect on the transmission of a virus. So little that the “medical community” said just wear an old bedsheet or something….

                    And henryKaren will deny the truth. Just as he did in real time. A true hysteric.

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                    1. Well said. You and I disagree on a number of things, but I at least respect your intellect and integrity. Can’t say the same for HenryKaren.

                      I’m amazed by those that keep doubling and tripling down on the Chinavirus bullshit.

          2. “…that even most in the medical community knew little about.”

            “Most” of the “medical community” are typical leftwing dumbasses. Expecting the medical community to get anything correct is a huge stretch, as proven by such stellar community members, WHO, the CDC, and Dr. Faucist.

            People with reasonable intelligence recognize the shortcomings of medicine. Thos same people recognize the length that the CPC and their buddies the democrats would go to to rid theirselves of the troublesome Trump. A few dead bodies has never stopped the commies.

            One more time, we had it right all along, damn near 100%. The rest of you went along with the great con.

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    2. That’s a lot of sh*t to talk in one post, Sceptic.
      I never told anyone to “cower in your house and wear four masks because the flu”.

      Feel free to build another strawman to knock over, if you don’t mind sounding like a jackass again.

      And I loved your later comments about how you had the whole thing figured out in January. I didn’t even deal with it at all until the 24th of that month.
      You could look it up.
      https://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/2020/01/in-case-you-missed-it-earlier.html

      But, hey, you had it “all figured out” before anyone was talking about it.
      Neat trick, Slick.
      I’m calling “bullshit.”
      And BTW, you still don’t know what you’re talking about.

      1. I have not read your blog so cannot comment on anything you have said.

        I can say that no one took the words “cower in your house and wear four masks because the flu” in any literal sense. It’s pretty clear it is hyperbole.

        Skeptic’s timeline might be off a few weeks, but that’s it. In the month of March we* knew what was happening, and said so.

        *By my count, at least 5 people currently commenting here plus Mike.

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        1. It’s not hyperbole when one presents the exact opposite of what was suggested.
          That’s just outright lying.
          Like I said, Strawman Fallacy.
          IOW, bullshit.

          Off by “a few weeks”, when the interval is from late January to late March, is exactly the difference between nothing, and a death count headed towards thousands.
          No points are awarded for being the 45th guy to yell “I am Spartacus!”
          So that’s 0 for 2.

          But I’ll bite: Do tell.
          What was happening, according to the commentariat?

          Then tell me where I missed that train.
          I love a good story.

          1. All of us were skeptical in early Feb. By early Mar we pretty much were sounding the alarm that this was BS.

            The POINT being was that we KNEW early on, before the Lockdowns, that this was BS.

            If skeptic was off by 4 weeks it’s not really a big deal, given we are now one year on from then and people STILL are calling this akin to Spanish Flu (I heard someone talking about that just today). His hyperbole was saying “4 masks” etc. That should have been your clue.

            I haven’t read your blog so I won’t comment here about that.

            I will say that if you are STILL calling WuFlu anything but a Giant Scam then, yes, you are in Camp 1.

            You were wrong. You don’t really dispute that. Own it and apologize. Just be aware that we were Right at that point and you’ve been wrong a long time now.

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          2. You love a good story?
            Kenny gave you the short form. No need to go back and look up the exact date as it doesn’t matter. The fact is many people were parroting the chinaVirus as an epic killer when it became clear that like the flu, it was primarily a final push of those advanced in age and already sick. Putting sick people in nursing homes? Kenny was the first I saw anywhere that noticed what was going on in the NYC area and that was in early to mid March. The Diamond Princess went into quarantine on Feb 5th and we were talking about it then, and highly suspicious.

            So, if you bought the con, that’s on you. We didn’t and we saw it quite clearly for what it was.

            And masks, as we have noted from the very beginning, do nearly nothing to stop an airborne virus, and that is if you wear a medical grade mask properly. The joke of covering your face with a bedsheet should be the 5 star alarm that tells you it was all intended to create hysteria. Worked.

          3. The “short form” was simple gainsaying. You should probably google that, as I’m guessing you’re not really clear on the concept.

            And if anyone thinks this pandemic has been “a scam”, they’re functional retards with delusions of competence, and so stupid, they don’t know what they don’t know.

            Masks don’t work? Really?!? An N95 and handwashing is all I’ve had for over a year of working at stinky diaper distance to hundreds of ferociously-infected COVID patients. So maybe you can explain by what magic that worked, since the masks were a waste of time. I’ll wait, while you squat and grunt out that attempt.

            While you’re up, name the U.S. hospital that doesn’t use masks in surgery, since that “doesn’t work” either. Name one. I triple-dog-dare you.

            You’ve got nothing.

            So maybe read up on people like Pasteur, Lister, and Semmelweiss, not to mention Nightingale and Barton, and gain a working knowledge of Germ Theory, before you start jabbering about things clearly far beyond your grasp, knowledge, or experience. (Just a suggestion, unless you like pulling your own pants down and spanking yourself in public. NTTAWWT, if that’s your thing.)

            I’ve only seen dozens and dozens of chest Xrays of COVID patients, drowning in their own fluids from the associated pneumonia, which presents differently from anything seen anytime in my 25 year career in emergency medicine. So your conspiracy has now included every doctor, nurse, radiologist, and radiology tech working in N. America, just for openers. That’d be about 3M of us, all dutifully keeping The Big Secret from you. Let me know when the sheer recockulousness of that contention finally makes the penny drop for you. Anytime.

            And according to the geniuses, those patients were all faking it too. How fucking brilliant is that!?!
            Please, dot ell us how they pulled that off.

            The ones I’ve personally zipped into body bags were faking it too. Even the ones in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. Clever buggers. That’s some suicide-bomber level of dedication, right there.

            The conex box reefers I put them in, especially when we had to install a second one, because all our morgue space was occupied, those folks were all fake too.

            Effing genius-level hoax, right there.

            So tell us, professors, how exactly the Hoaxmasters went and convinced people to die of a massive hoax, in obedience to maintaining the narrative.

            The same thing that happened in NYFC from March to June. In Atlanta and Nawlins in April and May. In Italy in February. And then blew up in CA from Labor Day to MLK, and took my state’s body count to parity with NYFS, and had us working our asses off with double and quadruple the patient load, per person, for nearly four months.

            Tell us what telling facts informed your oh-so-prescient skepticism in the face of those documented realities.

            Oh, wait…you haven’t got any of those, and you never had any. You’re the guys playing hopscotch in the minefield, mumbling “So far, so good…” and walking round slapping yourselves on the back for being soooooper-geniuses. Well-played.

            You can’t elucidate the barest substantiation right here, right now, even when called for it, because you’ve got nothing. That’s like pigeons playing chess, knocking the pieces over and shitting on the board, and thinking that therefore you won. Hint: It doesn’t work like that IRL. It never has, and it never will.

            I wasn’t wrong about anything. Including who the Gilligans are.
            So instead of dancing in the blood of the people who died, either put up, or shut up. And own the fact that you can’t string two thoughts together to explain anything you’ve said, otherwise you’d have done it.
            You obviously and manifestly know nothing.
            Least of all what you think you “know”.

            You believe some things, but few, if any, of those things are substantiated by anything approaching actual truth.
            If it were otherwise, you’d have dropped so much as one, if only to disprove the suggestion that there aren’t any.

            Some of what you believe in some respects might even have a rational basis, but you can’t even go there either, except on the fumes of what’s been presented by brighter folks.

            You want to talk about how any number of TPTB have leveraged a real medical crisis to their own ends (exactly as I warned you they would)? I’ll buy your newletter and march in your parade.
            You want to talk about how government @$$holes have used and continue to use junk science to fornicate common-sense decision making, and jam the joystick hard over onto the jackassical recockulous level of stupid ideas, just for political ends, like expanding their control, destroying the economy, and unseating the most popular president in a century, while committing electoral fraud on a level so huge Stevie Wonder can see it from space?

            Too late, Whiz kids, I’ve already done that, longer, louder, and with more actual, y’know, FACTS, than you lot could string together with all week and a team of researchers.

            So, srsly, quit talking fluent bullshit, and abandon the narrative from ignorance that this outbreak has been no big deal, while you’re only so far behind the curve you can’t even see Effed, Sideways, With A Rusty Chainsaw in your rearview mirror.

            You’re just the soccer hooligans in this discussion, two thousand arms and legs, all hoot and holler, and no brain – which is the textbook definition of a mob, since ever – and no one really wants you saying much of anything from that point of view, because you embarrass people who know what they’re talking about, and make it hard for casual bystanders to tell the two sides apart.

            You want to actually make a case, you’re going to have to bring more to the table than “But I don’t feeeeeeeeeel like that’s true!” Moonbats barking and pissing themselves about their pwecious feelz are generally laughed at, regardless of which side of the political fence they fall off of.

            It’s painful for you, and it’s painful for everyone else to watch.
            But the rib-splitting laughter afterwards, along with the pointing, is priceless. And sadly, necessary.

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            1. And there you go proving it. Thanks Aesop. Skeptic called it exacly right.

              99.999% of the masks people are wearing, certified as fine by the CDC and Fauxci, do not work. That’s why Masks Don’t Work is a valid statement. I stopped reading there. I can see the rest of your argument is SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

              Take your Tyranny elsewhere.

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              1. So you’re getting your medical advice from Fauci and the CDC?!?!?!?

                Stop, you’re killing me!

                That’s quite possibly the most retarded thing I’ve read online in months.

                Take your stupidity elsewhere.

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                1. Clearly, reading comprehension is not your strong suit. You are entertaining though. Few can type as much BS as you and say absolutely nothing of import.

            2. Masks in hospitals. Ever hear of bacteria? Masks have uses. A properly fitted N95 mask, changed for every patient exposure, removed with properly gloved hands might reduce viral transmission slightly. NOW, you go look up the data and tell us how effective the masks are against an airborne virus. We’ll wait and point and laugh. You could start at the CDC, that paragon of medical data and opinion where for the last 50 years or so they have said masks do little to nothing for airborne viral transmission.

              And since next to nobody outside the hospital is wearing an N95 mask you can go ahead and throw your bullshit out the window.

              Scam? Yea, a big fucking screaming scam that only retards that cannot think for theirselves fell for. Is the virus real? Of course. Since it’s new there is/was little immunity. Killer Virus? No, not even close. Akin to a bad flu other than the lack of immunity.

              Are we going to shut down the planet every time a new virus comes along?

              “So your conspiracy has now included every doctor, nurse, radiologist, and radiology tech working in N. America, just for openers.”

              No, every “doctor, nurse, radiologist, and radiology tech working in N. America” does not agree with you. It’s not even remotely “every”. You have been brainwashed by the conspirators. Just like there is no consensus on global warming. My sister is a pulmonary specialist, she’s seen the X rays too. And she thinks people like you are full of shit. So do I.

              “The same thing that happened in NYFC from March to June…”

              If I pay hospitals more money to declare deaths are the result of rat droppings, we’ll get zillions of deaths recorded as death by rat droppings. And if as in the case of many area’s, including NYFC, we send patients with the virus to the nursing homes, the places where half the people living there will be dead in 6 months anyway, we’ll get one hell of a body count. You and your medical community friends must be proud of that – Cuomo and others sent a virus deadly to the aged and sick into the very places where it would do damage, and y’all said nothing. No outrage, nothing. Can I find that on the pages of your blog? Did you speak out? Or did you sit back and let those people die?

              Hey Mr. fucking I think I’m brilliant:

              1. You’re not the only educated person around
              2. You’re not the only person with medical knowledge around
              3. You’re not the only person with an IQ above room temperature.
              4. You are however full of yourself. I know now why I don’t read you. Nothing you said is proof of anything other than you like to write and call people names.
              5. I now understand precisely what Skeptic had to say.

              1. You win the prize.

                But out of courtesy to Mike, I’ll spare the bandwidth, and fisk your bullshit in depth and detail on my blog.
                I was working on a 1-yr anniversary post, so you two lackwits can be the poster children.

                And lest you piss yourselves about it, you’ll have carte blanche in comments, regardless of how stupid you get.

                ROWYBS. This should be good.

                1. LOL, I think you are insane, but I can’t blame you for running off to hide. As for your invitation, thanks, no. I’m not in the habit of visiting the asylum. But do link back to this thread so that when you make up your lies others can see what we actually said.

                  Aesop. Fables. I see.

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                  1. Of course I’ll link it, but I’ll be using exactly and entirely what you’ve plopped out here in its entirety.

                    Anything less would be a crime, and you two are too good to pass up.

                    1. Great.

                      So, you’re going to prove to your wider audience that masks stop airborne viral transmission and that all those deaths attributed to the chinaVirus were the actual cause of death… Because the hospital that is paid to attribute the death to chinaVirus said so.

                      It would be quite nice if you could provide the studies, real scientific studies that refute 50 something years of the studies that say masks do little to nothing to stop a virus. Imagine, all along all we had to do to avoid the common cold and flu is just wear a mask. And just any old mask will do, improperly fitted and improperly handled and that’s all we need to stop the virus dead in its tracks.

                      You do provide a good laugh.

                    2. Nice try: you thought no one would notice you’ve moved the goalposts from “masks don’t work” to “masks aren’t 100% effective to stop all viral spread”?
                      And your excuse for the casualties is that every casualty is now a lie, bought and paid for, because hospital owners are leaping like Scrooge McDuck into vast vaults full of gold, because as everyone knows, the most-easily bribed and least trustworthy members of society are the people who work in healthcare, like doctors and nurses?

                      As to your oft-referred to but never-referenced “studies”, name one, and let’s see if it holds up to any serious scrutiny.
                      Of course, being a brilliant scientific mind, you’re already aware that over 90% of “studies” in that same time period have this unfortunate problem that no one who tries to replicate their alleged results could do it? IOW, they’re simply made-up bullshit. You knew all that, right
                      ?

                      But I’ll make you a deal:
                      1) we each stand 6′, then 10′, then 20′, and then 30′ apart
                      2) we each get a mouthful of water, each time
                      3) you wear any mask I choose, and I wear no mask, each and every time
                      4) At each distance, and with each mask, we each spit the mouthfuls of water at each other as hard as we can
                      5) winner is the one with the least water and spit on him at the end.
                      Do you want to put your money where your mouth is on masks not working, since yours will provide no obstacle? Or do you instead elect to chickenshit out because you’re going to lose by a country mile?

                      You do provide a consistent level of ignorance and fallacious reasoning, but it’s at about the 3rd grade level of attempt, and you’re only impressing yourself. That nothing based on better reasoning doesn’t impress you rather underlines where the problem is.

                    3. The ignoramus is back with his little duel of spit.
                      Thanks but no. I’m quite sure your spittle is toxic. Now if we can just get all those old and sick people to stop spitting at each other we’ll have this thing licked.

                      The masks don’t protect either the wearer or the person nearby. PROVE me wrong. If you claim they have a reasonable level of viral transmission reduction, then prove it. It’s not up to me to prove they don’t work – you’re at least somewhat familiar with logic right? We both know you will not because you cannot. All you have is spewing spittle.

                      Here’s a nice link I saved for fools:
                      http://www.tomgrimshaw.com/tomsblog/?p=30515
                      Try real hard to shoot the data down, not the messenger. If you can.

                      That’s right, I’ve read zero of what you blog, only what I read here. I suspect your manners are as bad at your blog as they are here. In fact the only thing you have done is call people names, question their intelligence, imply you know it all, and remain nearly fact free.

                      What masks do you think people are wearing outside the hospital you damn dimwit?

                      And yes, if I’m not “free in public to be a selfish asshole?“, then I live in communism. Another of your stupid brokedick remarks.

                      As Kenny and I both said way back in March of 2020, there are area’s of concentration and they warrant some different response’s than here in NC or other locations.

                      Let’s be perfectly clear, you are an idiot that still supports the government crackdown on those of us who wish to be assholes in public. You support the scam that was used to steal an election.

                      You are an enemy of freedom and liberty.

                    4. Masks don’t work.

                      Yes, you have to basically be coughed or sneezed on. Viral loads don’t stay suspended in the air for hours. A minute is probably more than enough for it to dissipate.

                      We are talking such an infinitely small chance. Plus the masks do nothing to alter that chance.

                      Plus I did assume the chances to spread across the US uniformly, which is also not true. It could be 1 person in a 100 Sq miles here in NC outside our smallish cities.

                      You are a Fascist Wannabe but you lie to yourself that you are using Science!

                      If Masks work why are the infection and death rates indistinguishable statistically from FL to NY? FL should hve 2x or more of a problem if Masks and Lockdowns did anything useful.

                      Answer: They don’t do anything useful.

                      I’m not reading much of what you write. So don’t waste time.

                      Beat Georgetown!! I’m watching the games.

                      Stop kid, you’re bothering me now.

                    5. I’m trying to order some of those anti- virus masks, but I cannot find a single one that claims to help stop a virus. Nothing.

                      Plenty to stop dust and bacteria, but not one manufacturer I can find claims it will impede a virus.

                      Odd.

                      I’m sure the man of fables will be along to tell us where we can order the anti-viral masks.

                    6. If you thought the masks were to protect the wearer, you’re just underlining your own retardation. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, this basic information was flogged to death a year ago, and you still haven’t read that memo, probably because you neeed someone to explain the big words to you.

                      The mask keeps your viral load in, which is the entire point. That you haven’t ever figured this out shows why explaining it to you is basically kicking retarded kids for being retarded.

                      What I support is you keeping your coughs and sneezes during a pandemic on your side of a simple face mask, when you’re in an enclosed space within 30′ of people.

                      And to show how little you grasp, a blogger citing 17 “studies” isn’t “data”.
                      It’s merely an amalgamation of shit.

                      Those “studies”, by the numbers:
                      1) “There’s little evidence” merely speaks to a dearth of valid studies. That isn’t science, or data, it’s admitting there’s noting to base anything on, because no one has studied the exact question under discussion. “There’s little evidence” that flapping your wings will save you from falling off a skyscraper, but not least because of a lack of volunteers. Maybe you two should apply, and solve that one.
                      2) Neither you nor “Tom” evidently read that one either, as the gist of the entire study is that masks should be worn. (You could look it up, Einstein.) He instead excerpted an objection, which the study’s authors then tear to shreds. The technical term for using a quote that disproves your position in that way is “lying”.
                      3) Demonstrates why you should be several feet away from other people, even with all present wearing face masks. Significantly, the leakage is behind the mask. IOW, they work as designed.
                      4) “there is no evidence”. Once again, arguing from a lack of research is not the same thing as proving exactly the point at issue.
                      5) A tiny study, controlling only for mask use in the hospital, while ignoring behavior everywhere else, resulting in exactly two people out of 32 who got colds, 1 in the mask group, and 1 in the no-mask group. Statistically recockulous, mathematically irrelevant, and wholly lacking in any control for variables, like children at home for those who got sick, who are Nature’s own disease pigs. The study even admits in the summary that it has essentially proven nothing.
                      6) A study of N95 and respirator use, which documented “no correlation”. IOW, they couldn’t prove anything, either way.
                      7) Almost actual science. Almost.
                      They tested two types of mask, but had the patients cough at a distance of 4 inches. Read the comments, particularly this one:
                      “As the authors acknowledge, their study does NOT evaluate the ability of the masks to shorten the trajectory of droplets emitted during coughing. The function of the mask is to reduce how far aerosol droplets travel during breathing, speaking, singing, sneezing, or coughing.”
                      IOW, yet another nothingburger study that proves nothing of value.
                      8) “We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection.” They “know” this because they didn’t research it, they concluded it from the outset.
                      This is junk science in action.
                      9) Has nothing whatsoever to do with the efficacy of masks to decrease viral transmission.
                      10) Has nothing whatsoever to do with the efficacy of masks to decrease viral transmission.
                      11) “Surgical masks are designed to protect wearers from microorganism transmission and fit loosely to the user’s face“. Um, NO. Surgical masks are deigned to protect surgical patients from the mask wearer’s bacteria and virus-laden snot. If Study authors cannot even grasp that basic concept (Jesus, they cover this concept in middle school, FFS!), they’re too stupid to be writing peer-reviewed literature, and their peers are too stupid to be consulted about whether to accept it.
                      Worse, it’s just a meat-analysis, i.e. just a review of other research. Nothing original, nor any discussion of whether that other research was on point, valid, or provided anything worth considering. This is throwing darts at a medical journal, and than adding up the points. That’s not science, it’s just generating paper to no benefit other than more grant money and more shit to put on one’s c.v.
                      12) Looks at whether mask use protects the wearer against infection. Has no idea, nor did any research whatsoever, on if the mask protects everyone else from the wearer, which is the entire point of masking in public. IOW, another waste of paper. Invalid.
                      13) Same problem as 12. Invalid.
                      14) No data, just another review of the lack of any actual research on the exact point at issue regarding masking. Invalid.
                      Best point:
                      The need for hand hygiene in disease prevention is well recognized among most communities.
                      Compliance with proper hand hygiene practice tends to be low because habitual behaviors are difficult to change.”
                      Worse for you, the study specifically recommends face masks be worn by the public in public settings, “but compliance in uninfected close contacts could be a problem.” The CDC just called you a Gilligan, in so many words. bummer, huh?
                      15) Only evaluates face masks as protection for the wearer, for which they were not designed, not are intended. Studies nothing at all regarding protection to everyone else from the wearer. Invalid.
                      16) Same problem as 15. Invalid.
                      17) Not even a study. Just a magazine article noting that there’s been no research either way, and pointing out the divide between both sides exists.
                      Well, Duh!

                      So there’s your “facts”: not one single study showing anything you thought was there, which you could have found for yourself, had you actually clicked the links, and looked at what they actually showed, instead of relying on some other clueless doofus to pre-digest them for you.

                      But at least we all know who read them, and who didn’t.

                      When I can find and point out the yuuuuuuuuuge flaws in every single one of them in about 60-90 seconds apiece, they’re not that hard to see, and anyone out there can now read this, follow your link, and see for themselves what a house of cards your staking your own health and everyone else’s upon.

                      As Dean Wormer noted,
                      “Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, boy.”

                      So let’s be perfectly clear: I don’t support government crackdowns, and as became obvious, far less stringent measures suffice in most instances to slow the spread to the point that the medical resources can deal with it. We have sailed close enough to crashing it, to date, in Nawlins (after they stupidly told people “go ahead and do Mardi Gras”), Atlanta, because “no restrictions”, NYFC, because Fredo and DeBozo are sociopathic assclowns, and SoCal, because Gabbin Nuisance is a moron too.

                      And the scam used to steal the election was massive voter fraud, pioneered right here where I am in 2018, without any pandemic pretext whatsoever. COVID just made it easier to get people to look the other way, especially when the legislatures, the courts, and the media wanted to do that anyways.

                      Neither COVID nor wearing masks elected Joe Biden. Neither did voting.

                      Fraud did.

                      If you two Darryls and your brother Larry had been half as huffed up about that as you are about me telling you that wearing a face mask for the 2% of the time you’re at the supermarket helps slow a pandemic, they never would have tried the fraud. But, as predicted, you’re more worried about the things that aren’t hurting you than you do about the things that’re going to kill you, whether it’s Kung Flu, or Dictator-For-Life Kneepads, in about five minutes.

                      Fuck off with that noise, and stick your baseless and utterly moronic opinions contrary to all available evidence where your head is jammed. Reality isn’t impressed by your disdain. Neither am I.

                    7. OK, so where do I order masks that keep a virus in? Ones that state that’s what they’re for.

                      I notice you didn’t link to any study providing mask efficiency result for the transmission of airborne virus, in any direction.

                      As for your write up – note I did not say that the link provided recommended you not wear a mask, what it does provide are some data points, all of which spell out the ineffectiveness of masks at inhibiting viral transmission.

                      A mask not specially fitted has no chance to even keep a sneeze contained, much less a virus. Sneeze, and that air rapidly expelled along with the virus is going somewhere. In fact every breathe you exhale is going somewhere. And since the virus is smaller than the mask pores, out it goes.

                      So, once again, give us the name of the mask supplier that has masks for keeping a virus in…

                      If you can’t do that then this is ended with you being full of dog poop.

                      And yes, your are a communist. You just aren’t smart enough to know it.

                    8. “Fraud did.”

                      You are dense. How was the fraud perpetrated? No wonder this country is going downhill.

                    9. Jesus, Barry, if the Army could mine your head and use what they found for tank sabot rounds, the hardness of the projectile would shoot through mountains.
                      Maybe read this s-lo-w-l-y, and see if you can grasp it all by yourself.
                      1) Masks that keep a virus in? That would be all of them. That’s what they’re designed to do. Even cotton ones. What, you figured that surgical masks back to the 19th century were made of gore-tex or something?
                      Masks that keep all virus in? Those are called Level A encapsulating suits.

                      2) Only functional idiots keep harping on how small a virus is, because you don’t cough and sneeze dry virus particles out. Don’t take my word for it though: Pull your thumb out of your mouth for a minute, and note how wet it is.
                      Then extrapolate and cogitate (that means think past your comfort zone) and realize that any virus inside your nose or mouth is similarly wet, thus not a virus particle, but part of a water molecule, which compared to a naked virus in the wild is HUGE, thus rather handily trapped by hydrophilic substances like even a humble cotton mask.

                      3) That there aren’t any studies proving this proves that no one has actually done that test. Which was exactly the problem with the laundry list of shit you linked to as if it contained anything to the contrary, which it doesn’t. The closest anyone came was the one Korean study, #7, where they almost studied the exact point at issue, except they put the petrie dishes 5’8″ too close to get anything both useful or relevant to the question you keep asking. You don’t like that inconvenient reality? Bitch to the Koreans who half-assed their research.

                      4) The link doesn’t “spell out the ineffectiveness of masks at inhibiting viral transmission” outward, they were all uniformly studying whether they protect the wearer (except #7, the half-assed study referenced in the point above.) Crack a friggin’ book, and grasp the difference.
                      Nobody, apparently anywhere, has bothered to test masks for inhibiting viral spread outwards, because everybody’s known they do that since Joseph Lister’s and Louis Pasteur’s era. In case you went to public school, that would be the late 1800s, 125 years ago. You could look it up.
                      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7309199/#:~:text=Modern%20area&text=The%20surgical%20mask%20was%20used,renounced%20for%20a%20long%20time.

                      5) Yes, viral-laden particles escape somewhere, but when a mask is worn, “somewhere” is overwhelmingly back at the wearer, or into the mask, not 6′ – nor 30′ – away, unlike they would for someone sneezing unmasked. Even for someone who ate too many lead paint chips to grasp that, it’s still true.

                      6) And yes, fraud is what got the election stolen. COVID was just a handy pretext for some of the shenanigans, using the principle of “never let a crisis go to waste”. Unless you want to start spinning recockulous black helicopter conspiracy theories about how China orchestrated the whole pandemic just so the Democommunists could unseat Trump.

                      And it was perpetrated by old-fashioned ballot box stuffing, and software programming that altered vote counts received until the desired results were obtained.
                      None of that required COVID, just the stones to try it.

                      And, having failed at every feeble attempt to back up your own points, the two Darryls elect to play pigeon chess, shit on the board, and knock over the pieces, convinced in their little birdbrains that they have won.
                      QED

                  2. Real nice. A link to a history of mask use that presents not one shred of evidence a mask has any ability to slow down or inhibit the transmission of a virus in any direction.

                    So one last time, where do I purchase one of your magic masks that specifically states it will do anything to inhibit the transmission of a virus?

                    The response to the virus, the scam, is what allowed the marxist democrats and their handmaidens the republicans to steal the election. Masks were part of the hysteria and you helped spread it apparently.

                    You started out insinuating that wearing a mask is what kept you from getting the chinaVirus while you packed body bags with the dead. Now you’ve admitted they do nothing to protect the wearer of a mask from a virus. So, we’re half way there. They don’t protect anyone from a virus.

                    As a public service, tell us where to purchase the magic mask.

                    1. Can you find your way to the store on your own?
                      Do you have your name and your mommy’s phone number on a tag sewn inside your collar?
                      If so, then you should be able to handle that task.

                      Any store that sells masks will have something as good, or better, than what’s been used to keep disease in, as what was used non-stop in this country for exactly that purpose since the 1890s. It needn’t be hermetically sealed and contain every last droplet, it just has to provide an improvement over nothing. That’s all anyone with two brain cells ever promised you. Evidently that bit of obviousness sailed right over your head and impacted on the wall behind you, about a thousand times since last March. Bless your heart.

                      You seem dead-set on deliberately ignoring nearly 130 years of medical evidence that they do exactly that, because no one’s stupid enough to claim what you’re claiming, which is that they do no such thing.

                      Be a trailblazer if you’re that smart: set up the test yourself, test masks, and see if you can culture one single virus on a petrie dish placed 6′ away.

                      And then compare that result with what happens with no mask, and see how much worse it is.

                      Then publish your findings, and get it reviewed.
                      QED

                      Brace yourself. It will be as scientifically earth-shattering as telling people that water freezes at 32°F.

                      You’ve posted 17 recocklulous collections of shit that all agreed no one has ever done that, and only one came close, but they only put the petrie dish 4 inches away, which isn’t the standard we’re talking about since ever, and specifically since at least last February.

                      There’s no magic involved.
                      We’ll ignore, for your sake, that such research would be like dropping bowling balls off a roof to see if gravity actually works, but if you need hand-holding on basic physics, so be it.

                      The response to the virus had little to do with stealing the election, any more than Tinkerbell actually summons the nightly fireworks at Disneyland. It was just the smoke-and-mirrors pretext for doing exactly what they were going to do, with or without it. Just like they did in CA in 2018, with no pandemic in sight. To crickets in response. So get off that dick. All you’re doing is wearing a huge “Kick Me” sign.

                      Me wearing an N95 mask is exactly what has helped protect me from the virus in hundreds of COVID patients at bad breath distance at work, for over a year.
                      People brighter than you all wearing masks in public places is what has helped prevent me from getting it the 132 hrs a week when I’m not at work. And the masks keep their (and my) mitts off our own faces, which helps even more, considering the 300-500 times everyone touches their faces every single day, simultaneously uploading and downloading germs every single time.
                      This isn’t rocket science for most people beyond the age of 8, despite the thickness of your skull.

                      And I haven’t “admitted” that snot masks do nothing to protect the wearer, and only a fucking retard would find that “news”.
                      Here’s your sign.

                      I flat out shouted that obvious fact from the rooftops, dozens of times, over months and months. Generally, just for Special Ed short-bus cases like you, and Larry, and your other brother Darryl. Yet again, you could look it up.

                      https://raconteurreport.blogspot.com/2020/04/why-masks-and-gloves-will-and-wont-ever.html

                      If this is news to you, it’s a wonder you can breathe and chew at the same time. You should probably take Will Rogers’ sage advice, and not pass up a good opportunity to STFU. Maybe use your new-found extra time to go read, and stop looking like the World’s Biggest Jackass for missing something so obvious until beaten over the head with it, repeatedly. You’ll get a much more harmonious outcome than you will by arguing from ignorance until you’ve belabored every last point to demonstrate how much nothing you know.

                      So, one last time for the Fucktard Special Snowflake TL;DR Platoon, you covering your nose and cakehole protects me and everyone else in shared public spaces from you; me and everyone else in a public space doing the same thing protects you from us. I can teach this to kids with Downs’ Syndrome FFS, without even needing to draw them pictures. It’s time for you to stop sticking your fingers in both ears and going “La-La-La!”, and instead level up with the rest of the planet, and get that.

                      And BTW, you don’t need to wear a mask alone in your car (although you do sound that stupid), and you don’t need to wear one outside, in the sunlight, walking all by yourself. Duh.

                      That all this is so shocking and surprising to you at this late date simply proves that you’re not tall enough for the internet, despite possessing a keyboard and an uninformed opinion the size of Antarctica.

                      Scuttle back under your bridge.
                      Grown-ups are talking.

                    2. More of your absolute bullshit. One more time, point us to a mask that the maker says protects the wearer or non-wearer from a virus.

                      You can’t because they don’t exist.

                      As for you going back to the mask protects the wearer –
                      “If you thought the masks were to protect the wearer, you’re just underlining your own retardation. Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, this basic information was flogged to death a year ago…”

                      “The mask keeps your viral load in, which is the entire point.”

                      The “entire point” you say. Did you mean something else? Is English your first language?

                      You are entertainment and reveal the depths of stupid we face in this country. Now run along and go fuck yourself. You’re boring and a liar to boot.

                    3. Asking the same stupid and irrelevant question, because the only thing you can’t grasp is that it’s jackassically stupid, underlines that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, and cannot comprehend anything requiring even a mid-80s IQ.

                      All you’ve done, time after time, is pull your own pants down, show your ass, and then proceed to spank yourself.

                      Well-played.

                    4. You’re full of shit.
                      You can’t point us to the magic mask that prevents virus transmission according to the manufacturer.
                      Your position on the reason it’s used is like a weathervane.

                      You are the dumbest bastard I think I’ve seen grace these pages with turds.

                2. ooh A STERNLY WORDED REBUKE ON YOUR OWN BLOG.

                  Heh, have at it. Don’t forget to fellate yourself.

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                  1. No.
                    A forensic dissection of the level of self-delusion you suffer from. It, and your psychosis, deserves a wider audience that it’ll get here. Mainly as a warning to anyone else.

                    Don’t forget to pull your head out of your ass so you don’t fall over.

                    1. Have at it, remember to lick the boots of the Ward Heelers who have kept us inside most of the time for a year and let us out only with face diapers of submission.

                      Because they really love some boot licking before they stomp on your face.

                      Me, I’ll live standing up, thank you very much.

                      Oh, for your readers:
                      They claim 30 Million people or so have gotten the WuFlu Just The Flu.
                      About 10% of the population over basically a year.
                      How many people at any given time over that year were “positive”. 10%? That’s 3 million people. Roughly 1% of the population of the whole Country.
                      But wait! Half of the people that test positive are false positives. Down to 0.5%.
                      Half of those are asymptomatic. Down to 0.25%.
                      But wait! Symptomatics should quarantine. That would catch about 90% of those, as there will be some people just showing symptoms and not yet quarantined.

                      So down to 0.025% of the Country are dangerous enough and out there not wearing a mask.

                      That means out of the whole country there are 82,500 people that may cause me a problem. That would be 2,625 people in my whole State. Almost 54,000 sq. miles. So 0.05 (rounded) people per square mile. So basically 1 person within every 21 Square Miles.

                      But wait! I not only have to be unlucky to be near them, I have to be near them for a significant period of time, or touch something they spittled on and then touch my face, or they have to sneeze or cough directly in my face.

                      The odds are so astronomically small of that happening that I have a better chance of a car accident.

                      Now, when I drive I take precautions to lower my chances of an accident. likewise, with a virus I also take steps to lower my odds. Don’t touch your face while outdoors. Wash thoroughly upon getting back home, and take advantage of any anti-bacterial wipes provided by stores etc. Even while home do not touch your face after returning home until you have washed your hands with soap properly.

                      I think I’ll take the chances of Living Free and Maskless.

                    2. You both keep assuming I’m in favor of mask mandates and lockdowns, based on reading 0% of anything I’ve blogged.

                      This is why you’re ignorant fucktards.

                      And no, they don’t have to sneeze or cough “directly into your face”.
                      Coughs propel viral-infected snot 20′ @200MPH, and sneezes 30’@300MPH.

                      But, you’re willing to not touch your face, wash your hands, and sanitize commonly-touched objects?

                      Outfuckingstanding, fuckwit, that’s all I’d suggest you do, other than wear a mask when indoors in public, in close contact with unwashed humanity.

                      The mask isn’t to protect you from them, it’s to protect them from you and your spew, and even then only if the business owner requires it, and only until sufficient quantity of people are either immune from the infection from their own antibodies, or a functional vaccine, at which point this virus this poses no major threat to pulling the entire healthcare system under.

                      That’s IT.

                      The time to end lockdowns was last May.
                      I’ve never been in favor of mandatory mask policies for most people, 95% of the time.
                      Businesses should set their own policies, not government.

                      So what’s your problem, other than knee-jerk double talk about how “masks don’t work” except when they do, but they’re TOTAL COMMUNISM if you’re not free in public to be a selfish asshole?

                      Then you address the fact that only 10% of the country has had the virus in the past year.
                      That’s the point, lackwit.
                      It’s killed 500K with only a 10% penetration (largely achieved by being at 25% in high-pop areas, and <1% in most of what is cheerfully called "flyover country" by your would-be overlords.)
                      So you want to make sure we get the exposure nationwide to 100%, so you can have 10X as many people dead??

                      Wile E. Coyote level of supergenius, right there.

                      That’s the math you’re not doing.
                      You have a planetary rotation problem: you think the entire country revolves around you, and fuck the 4.5M potential fatalities we haven’t got yet.

                      That’s Moron Math, and that’s why you (and anyone with any sense) should want your ignorant cakehole masked up in the store.

                      So instead of being the poster child for Fuck Everybody, pull your head out of your ass, exactly as suggested.

              1. Too many times over the last year I’ve patiently explained things to only hear back. YOU MORON YOU WANT TO KILL GRANDMA I’M A SUPER GENIUS AND YOU ARE SO STUPID SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

                At this point if you are still a True Believer I just tell you to FOAD and I move on.

                I was being polite to him.

                1. Yea, it does get old. Their only argument consists of “listen to me I’m an expert and you are a peon”. And can’t even recognize this is the precise argument every marxist on the planet makes while murdering tens of thousands.

  2. It’s subtle as a flying mallet on my part here but here’s my two cents.

    Secession itself is an outright Act of War. It immediately places you, as a State, in the position of having to eject all DC run Fed presence (or assimilate them if they choose. Not all will) and take over the Fed facilities.

    It’s almost like firing first.

    Nullification will draw a response a d it will be perceived that the Feds fired first.

    I know in the end we end up fighting but for many people the idea that “they fired first” carries the moral weight of being a fight in Self Defense rather than the Act of an Aggressor. Swinging that squishy not paying attention middle to the Moral Value of Your Cause is something not to be taken lightly.

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  3. I’m of the opinion they “fired first” already. Secession, nullification, whatever it’s called it is much the same. The problem we have is most of the nominally republican states really aren’t conservative at all. Georgia and all the states where the election fraud was most evident and costly did nothing. They might as well be Mitch McConnell led states.

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    1. I can’t disagree with you, but some people really don’t get it yet. They need to see actual shooting on a large scale to understand what we are saying, let alone get to the point Mike is at.

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      1. No one is anywhere near shooting at this point. Short of something big, like attempted gun confiscation on a massive scale*, I don’t think we’re going to see any shooting, ever.

        We need to concentrate on having states ignore the feds, and – stop buying their damn stuff. An economic war will be highly effective but I don’t see many practicing it.

        *there are other event triggers

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        1. Ashli Babbitt could not be reached for comment.

          For reference, John Wilder notes we’re at around 650 out of the 1000 deaths required for international definitions of a civil war.
          I’m pretty sure 650>none.

          Just saying.

          We can agree things haven’t kicked off in earnest, but we’re far from “not started”.

          1. My statement “No one is anywhere near shooting at this point.” is with respect to those on my side, the MAGA side, the side against election thievery.

            1. Okay, so it’s not “no one”.

              No one on our side, yet, has started shooting.
              {Q.: What do you call an American Revolution that hasn’t gotten to Lexington and Concord?
              A.: The Boston Massacre.
              }

              But I can tell you a helluva lot of people are indeed “anywhere near shooting” on our side of the fence. I know some of them personally. They just haven’t taken up the last pound or so of trigger pressure. AFAIK.

              Nota bene: No Marquess Of Queensbury Rules very likely includes the concept that brighter and very, very serious people aren’t going to sell tickets, invite ABC Sports, and wave the green flag at the staring line after the National Anthem is sung.

              Certain Usual Suspect m*****f*****s may just start disappearing. Or being found with their bodies one place, and their heads in a different zip code.
              Without further explanation.
              That’s how these things are handled, traditionally.

              (FTR, the solve rate for most US homicides right effing now is somewhere around 60%, most years. Which only means that 2/3rds of the time, they think they can pin it on someone, and not necessarily the one who actually did it. When no specific suspect is known or found within 48 hours, that solve rate drops to single-digit percentages. The idea that someone will connect those dots, and decide the lemon is worth the squeeze, any minute, and leverage that reality for specific ends isn’t that hard a case to make. Rest assured that decoys, copycatting, and slipping in the settling of other personal scores will be rolled into that dough, making the efforts at unravelling it that much harder.
              It picks up a terrible speed, once everyone realizes that “after the first one, the rest are free.”)

              You’re looking at the grenade with the pin pulled, and extrapolating “nothing has happened.”
              That’s true, for the moment.
              But it’s not the same thing at all as “That’s a dud.” Right?

              Most people are noticing the smoke coming from the fuze assembly, and looking for solid cover.

              Shit’s gonna go off.

              What hasn’t been settled, is how much time remains on the fuze before the chain reaction begins, and body parts start to fly.

              But it’s very unlikely to be a question of “If” any more.

              The other side’s Bomb Squad to head that off is made of lunatic retards. Mostly, in fact, drunk and stoned lunatic retards.

              When adult supervision is re-established, that’ll be our side stepping in, and it’s gonna leave one helluva mark.

              1. “Okay, so it’s not “no one”.”

                Most people understand there are always exceptions. Some people have so little to say, while writing volumes, they nitpick wording.

                I see no evidence that anyone on my side is taking up arms, “at this point”.

                And in general, I find those afraid of the flu are unlikely to be in the group that does.

                1. If there are “always exceptions”, then using phrases like “no one” are retarded prima facie, and intelligent people don’t make broad statements statements knowing they’re false, unless they intend to deceive.

                  What other people are or are not doing requires no input nor observation from you whatsoever to be true. All you’re doing is giving a local weather report, and extrapolating it into a general forecast, by totally ignoring how limited your knowledge of events is.

                  That’s not how it works.

                  And what you’re telling us is more (in fact, pretty much entirely) about you than it is about anyone or anything else, whether you meant it to be the case, or not.

                  Unless we’re to believe that someone made you the chairman of the insurgency committee, and that everyone has to get their actions approved by you before bringing them to fruition.

                  That’d be the day.

    2. It’s going to have to start with Ironbear Territory – TX and Oklahoma – and other middle of the Country Red States.

      Places like GA are going to need to go Nullification at the local and county levels against their Capitols first.

      Unfortunately we here in NC are in that second group.

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  4. I would also note that if what supposedly happened in Germany, with SEALs having a gun battle with CIA Agents over the Dominion Servers, there might be a Stealth War, or at least maneuvering for position, going on.

    1. Didn’t happen as far as I’m concerned. Just disinformation.

      Or else “we” lost, bigtime.

  5. The traditional result of this kind of thing is not secession, it’s internal balkanization with the national government acting a broker between the cantons.  The classic example is late empire Rome, where the Western Empire extracted taxes and slaves from the  hinterlands, but mostly just left them to their own devices.  Roman Alexandria is another example, with the Jewish Quarter, Latin Quarter, Greek Quarter, Egyptian Quarter, etc, each being it’s own fiefdom.  You saw that in Northern Ireland during the troubles.  You see that in northern Mexico, where the cartels have as much, or more, control than the federales.  You see that in the “no-go” zones controlled by gangs in places like Chicago and LA. You see it in places Muslim-controlled suburbs in Michigan.

    It starts with no-go zones.  Then it goes to local armed militias and road checks.  And then either the central government comes down hard, or it becomes nothing more than another gang.  In the latter case a civil war with secession is just the end stage of a process that had been going on for a long time — the breakup of Czechoslovakia, for instance.

    1. Historically and even in present day you are correct. It’s a good lesson.
      OTOH, the present day places* along with those in past history were unlike the modern USA. Does that change the result? I don’t know, but I lean towards yes, it does. It is my opinion that if enough states form a compact to ignore federal edicts, the feds will simply lose their power. There is no military north/south divide.

      *Excepting those places like muslim area’s in the USA that are just politically tolerated. That’s a political choice made by the marxists in charge.

  6. And, as I keep saying, nobody has to like it. I most certainly don’t. Personally, I would much prefer to live out my remaining days in a nation NOT riven by strife, deprivation, and calamity…

    Likewise, Mike. And guess what:

    The universe doesn’t give a shit what we’d prefer. Shit’s gonna happen the way it’s gonna happen whether we like it or not.

    Ask somebody from the Confederate States of Americans how it worked out last time around. I see no reason to think that FederalGovCo’s position towards secession has mellowed; the roadblock still stands, as impassable as it ever was.

    The actual Confederate States of America? Or one of their descendants?

    If the former, lemme know how that conversation goes. I’ll bet you can make a mint off of selling the process for that one. 🙂

    If the latter?

    The question of secession was settled by force of arms in 1865.

    It’ll remain settled… until force of arms settles it differently the next time around.

    With nullification the same roadblock looms, but it is at least conceivable that a way could be found for the several states to pull it off without sparking a violent response.

    Yer just gonna have to forgive me for laughing hysterically at that one, Mike. Or not. 🙂

    Arizona House Passes Law to Nullify Biden’s Federal Gun Control

    At this point, we’re just waiting for one of the states that’s passed Nullification to act on it, and for the Fed to attempt to force them to obey. At that point, it’s on. Be like Bundy Ranch and the Branch Davidian compound on the large economy sized scale.

    The coin toss is whether it’s going to end like Waco with those states in flames and their women and children burning to death in the ruins or like the Bundy standoff with the Feds realizing that they bit off more than they can chew and backing down.

    The wild card is that this is not the Clinton Administration United States of 1993.

    Yep, agree with you. Ironbear needs to be out front 🙂

    Don’t sweat it. If Texas succeeds or nullifies, the battle line is already going to be drawn at the Red River, because that’s one of the three main invasion routes into Texas. Right in my backyard.

    I’ve already made my peace with that.

    1. If Texas were to ignore the feds, what can / would the feds do about it other than economic sanctions? Send the military? I think the feds would fear the military revolting, at least for now, and be afraid to play that card. So, they withhold funds and Texas can just withhold taxes. Short of sending in the military I don’t see what they can do.

      1. Trying to predict what the Feds might do in that situation, with a Far Left deep state administration in charge, crashes and burns on the rocks of the fact that these people are insane. And out of touch with what we think of as reality.

        A crazy person is consistent within the framework of his own worldview, but – you have to understand his worldview in order to predict him.

        That’s where we bog down. It’s hard for us to think along the lines of a crazy Leftist within their framework. Even those of us on the Right, like me, who are crazy, are crazy in a Right Wing framework, not a Left Wing one.

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        1. So, what might they do? What could they do? Economic sanctions, send in the military? Send in the Feds?

          Quien Sabe? Any or all of those things.

          Would the military revolt?

          Some of it, probably.

          But don’t forget: there’s Leftists in the military, along with a lot of minorities and foreign exchange troops, and Leftists in charge of the military. Hard to say how that would break down in practice.

          They are working hard at purging the Trump supporters and Right-wingers out of the ranks and file right now.

          Send in the Feds?

          They might actually think they have enough Federal agents to overwhelm local LEOS and patriots and governments and shock and awe them.

          Or, they might know that they don’t and be counting on the slaughter of hundreds of Federal agents as a causus belli to use as a pretext for sending in their purged military.

          Who knows? Crazy people.

          1. OK, you’re thinking is about the same as mine other than reminding me the left is insane, truly and literally insane, and therefore unpredictable.

            1. Yeah, I’d really prefer to deal with a Right-wing totalitarian government, if it were possible for there to be such a thing*, because you’d at least know what to expect from them.

              * Spoiler: It’s not.

  7. “Everyone knows it was stolen, especially those who benefitted from the steal.” – TL Davis

    Don't touch your dials. We control your horizontal and your vertical.

    8
    2
  8. There is no assurance of success in any peaceful secession attempt.

    There is assurance there will be bloodshed the likes of which this continent has never seen if there is no attempt made whatsoever.

    Can you with good conscience live with the latter, if you personally never desired or tried the peaceful former?

    1. Yes.

      Because we’ve already tried the peaceful former. That’s the history of the Right in this country in a nutshell: trying over and over again for peaceful coexistence with the Left, and never quite understanding that they’re doomed to failure.

      Fuck that noise.

      The Left has never bothered trying for the peaceful former.

      We’re done trying.

      1
      2
      1. Yes, we’ve been peaceful in the face of leftwing orchestrated violence for 50 years or more. That time is coming to an end.

        1. Yeah.

          After I hit [send] I was looking at Ardino’s comment and wondering why I kept thinking it was schizophrenic. It finally hit me: the first sentence is accurate, while the second evidences a complete inability to perceive the reality of the past sixty+ years, while the third is the stupidest damned thing I’ve read on the internet in a month of Sundays.

          1. I’ve read it about 5 times and cannot parse the precise meaning… But I’m guessing we are supposed to be nice, forever. Or something like that.

            1. I think Chief Joseph had a saying along those lines. “I will be nice no more forever,” or something like that.

      2. I am willing to stand corrected, but to the best of my memory secession hasn’t been tried since 1865. What is this peaceful separation we have supposedly tried and failed at?

        There has been attempts at peaceful coexistence for 60 years and that has indeed failed, but there has been no attempt at divorce from the left. Correct me if I missed the recent peaceful secession attempt?

        And if my post was unclear let me give a brief example: husband and wife married for decades grow apart and are no longer in any way compatible. Divorce would be difficult and one spouse does not want it.

        Is the moral and ethical and right answer to the quandary for the one spouse to throw their arms in the air and say ‘I tried to make it work its impossible’ and then kill the other spouse?

        Or is it moral and ethical and proper to try to get the divorce in all its ugliness first, and then later, God forbid, act in proper self defense if violence is forced on you?

        From where I sit, those that want CW2 before any attempt at secession are like the former, and lacking in moral and ethical high ground just like the murderous spouse.

        Secession may not work. But imo, it is moral and ethical and proper to at least try to end the union peacefully first.

        1. That’s a bit more clear that the first go around Adino.

          Why I think you are wrong –
          Secession is just a formal process, like a state sanctioned divorce. You are suggesting we must first follow that process before we can revolt and kill our slavemasters, or we are morally improper.
          I reject that notion entirely. I have no allegiance to a process that’s result is to remove freedom and liberty from my (our) grasp.

          1. Yeah, it is. Now that Ardino has clarified, I have to admit that I was wrong:

            His entire comment up above was the stupidest thing I’ve read on the internet all year.

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        2. I do not believe there is any chance at Secession peacefully. I fully expect the Feds to immedaitely and violently oppose it.

          My suggestion is first Nullification. Refuse to recognize DC’s unconstitutional Edicts and do not enforce them. Do not let anyone else within your jurisdiction enforce them.

          Either way I expect the Feds will resist and start shooting.

          Secession or Nullification is equivalent of standing on Lexington Green and waiting for the Redcoats. They MIGHT turn around and go back, but that’s not the way I’d bet.

          1. The thing that a lot of people voicing objections to secession, separation, or nullification just don’t seem to get is that they – the objections – are irrelevant at this point.

            It’s irrevocable now. Every path – secession, nullification, civil war, burn it all the fuck down, or do nothing at all – ends in blood and gunsmoke.

            Even the path of compliance with the Left ends with blood and gunsmoke for us: the cattle car, the camps, and the bullet to the back of the neck.

            And I just don’t get why so many can’t seem to see that.

            The blood and fucking gunsmoke is coming regardless. Pick the path that best uses that toward our own ends, rather than the enemy’s.

            1. They seem to think that Commies have horns coming out their heads, and other distinguishing marks that label them Commies. They cannot grasp that Pelosi, Schumer, AOC, Biden, Kamal, Nadler, Schiff and all the rest of the Dem Elected Officials, their appointees, their staffs, their advisors, their backers (and a good many “Republicans”) and 99% of the Media are all Dyed In The Wool outright Commies.

              They can’t grasp that this is a Commie Revolution unfloding right here, right now. They must think “it can’t happen here” or “these people are bad, but not real Commies”. Real Commies can’t exist in America!

              Just like another generation found it hard to believe McCarthy when he said there were Commies in the Government in the 50’s. Or when it was shown there were Commies in Hollywood in the 30’s and 40′, and Commies in all the unions in the 1960’s.

              That’s the only thing I can think of to explain the “why” of it. They are denying reality because reality is both Ugly and Scary.

              1. And accepting it means they might have to face something unpalatable. Like Trump’s mean tweets.

        3. Secession won’t be peaceful. Neither will separation. Just the concept in and of itself is nonsensical.

          Civil war in our current state of affairs is also likely to end in bloody futility – unlike the Founding Fathers, the current Right has no philosophical underpinnings to such a path of action, and no organization.

          Still, the current situation is untenable.

          As far as your question, “Can you with good conscience live with the latter [bloodshed the likes of which this continent has never seen]”:

          And I were offered even the reasonable possibility at a chance that Barry’s grandkids, SteveF’s daughters, Kenny’s kids, and my godchildren’s children could have a shot at growing up in a world free of the Left’s oppression, and all that it would take is for me to wade through rivers of blood, climb over a mountain of bodies dead at my own hand, and commit acts that would damn my soul to Hell for all eternity…

          I’d do so without blinking and with zero hesitation.

          Any man that I consider worth knowing would choose the same.

          So, yeah. I could live with it.

          Just so long as my enemies die with it.

          1. Bingo.
            Americans have been fighting, and dying, for other Americans since our inception. Freedom requires the death of the enemy, whoever that might be. And we don’t need their permission.

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  9. Wars, especially Guerilla wars, are won by winning the hearts and minds of the native population those engaged in the war are forced to operate from and within.

    What wins more hearts and minds of fence sitters and potential allies?

     – To hell with them, the time to talk is done and the time has come to kill ’em all.

    –  We hate to have to fight, it wasn’t our choice, but after stealing the Presidency and Senate and refusing proper redress with the courts we tried to peacefully leave.  When that didn’t work and they attacked us first, we had no choice but surrender and die – or fight.  So loving God and country we chose to defend ourselves and what’s left of America

    Call me crazy, again, but I think #2 wins more actual support and/or ‘I didn’t see nothing’ than #1.

    Sometimes the attempt to succeed is as important as actually succeeding.  When it comes to winning hearts and minds.

    1. I didn’t call you crazy, I called you stupid.

      Case in point:

      Sometimes the attempt to succeed is as important as actually succeeding.

      Succeeding is as important as actually succeeding.

        1. Oh…
          I met him in a swamp down on Dagoba
          Where it bubbles all the time like a giant carbonated soda
          S-O-D-A, soda

          I saw the little runt sitting there on a log
          I asked him his name and in a raspy voice he said “Yoda”
          Y-O-D-A, Yoda
          Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda

          Well, I’ve been around, but I ain’t never seen
          A guy who looks like a muppet, but he’s wrinkled and green
          Oh, my Yoda
          Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda

          Well, I’m not dumb, but I can’t understand
          How he can lift me in the air just by raising his hand
          Oh, my Yoda
          Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda
          Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda

          🙂

    2. 80 Million people turned out to vote for Trump because they liked his Policies.

      Only perhaps 60 Million voted Dem. Many of whom could care less about policy as long as the EBT card gets filled every month and they have a free place to live.

      We have WON the hearts and minds. People need to be told bluntly and directly what we are facing. Commie Revolution is going to take away our Country and make us Slaves in the land we once called ours.

      When they have succeeded in taking you as a Slave it will be too late. Talking about the inevitability of bloodshed is a shock that needs to be administered Right The Fuck Now. We are not going to be allowed any kind of win in 2022 and by 2024 it will be a done deal. They will have purged the armed forces and established their own paramilitary groups.

      It’s not only 1775 and 1861 already, we are at 1934 Germany time here, right now, in this Country. The Fascists assumed control in 1933 and by 1935 there was no getting rid of them.

      Today I read that Gab has lost its fourth bank in four weeks. THIS is the warfare they will use to destroy all opposition. The Banks were TOLD in no uncertain terms to either shut down the Gab accounts or the bank would face regulatory scrutiny so fierce the Bank will be shut down. I can tell you right now, with certainty that is what they’ll do because I worked inside a bank that failed in 2008-9 and faced government anal probes all through the years. They’ll fine you for having poor KYC procedures for even allowing “domestic terrorists” and “Insurrectionist Propaganda Outlets” have an account in the first place.

      1
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      1. Only perhaps 60 Million voted Dem.

        Probably more like 40 million, or less, but I couldn’t swear to that.

        2
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          1. *nod* My granddad voted Republican ’til the day he died. He’s voted Democrat ever since.

            Sooner or later even the dimmest cucks on the Right are going to realize that Civil War 2.0 started in earnest on January 6, 2021, right after the Democrat’s successful Coup de Tat. The shooting part just hasn’t quite started yet.

            * Soap box
            * Ballot box
            * Jury box
            And soon to be Cartridge box, if the sales figures on guns and ammo are any clue.

            3
            2
    3. Perhaps it’s time you were acquainted with two hoary and seminal adages of guerrilla warfare:

      Grab the sumbitches by the balls, and their hearts and minds will follow.

      Hearts and Minds Principle:Two to the heart, and one to the mind.

      QED, in either manner.

      The British didn’t give up because we won them over with our dazzling arguments, or our puppy-dog eyes.
      They quit because we lured them in over their heads, then held their heads underwater until they cried “Uncle!”

      The same strategy was applied by Grant and Sherman to the Confederacy, with similar, albeit far bloodier, results.

      Curtis LeMay’s axiom has been oft-repeated at WRSA:
      “You’ve just got to keep killing the enemy. When you kill enough of them, they don’t want to fight any more.”

      “Enough”, in the context of this discussion, is a variable of between One and All Of Them. {E=1-∞}.

      Anyone who isn’t already fine with that should either harden the eff up, or get back on the porch and find a suitable vantage point for viewing. I’ve been to a number of sporting matches, and a wee few military formations. I’ve never seen a team captain or manager, let alone generals or admirals, take a poll of the bystanders to determine when to start nor end their contests, nor decide winners and losers.

      In fact, it never even occurs to them.

      Anybody who has to be explained into wanting liberty is a target, not a bystander. Perhaps a low-value target, but part of the problem always, and the solution never. The only thing they control is upon which side of that line they stand, but the opportunity to make a decision is rapidly coming to a close. Do-overs are anything but likely.

  10. I would like to extend my gratitude and respect for Mike for allowing me to speak freely.

    And to all who responded for respecting their right to do the same.  Disagreement with intent to learn is not a bad thing.  Ever.

    May we all face with courage and wisdom the reality thrust on us.

    Fight the good fight, the best you can and where you can.

    Godspeed, gentlemen

    1. I know you’re not talking to me, there. I don’t disagree with intent to learn. Nope, not me. I disagree only with intent to troll.

  11. I’m not wasting my time with Aesop the Fabulist. Long rambling discussions of everything but the two obvious points.

    The Masks say right on the package and no respectable authority would dispute the fact that they do not stop a virus.

    The Data supports the idea that masks don’t work. Whether they had strict mask mandates or no mask mandates the spread of the virus was not affected. May as well have been sticking your right finger in your left ear as you went about you business, as wear a mask.

    They’re face diapers of Submission and/or security blankets for superstitious morons, like Wikkan talismans or a lucky rabbit’s foot.

    Not going to bother now with 20 paragraphs of SCREEEEEEEEE! where no science is involved. That’s my last word on the subject.

    1. The masks aren’t to protect the wearer, as has been known by anyone within about half a second’s actual thought. And you wouldn’t know actual science if it bit you on the ass.

      Your earnestly held opinions are backed up but nothing but your own preconceptions, and reflect the difference between people who feel, versus people who think.

      The latter is simply too hard for you, and thus your opinion is meaningless. reality is not derived by a consensus of the ignorant, and the ones doing all the SCREEEEE are you and your brother ‘tards.

      1. “As a public service, tell us where to purchase the magic mask.”
        The ones that state they will prohibit the transmission of a virus. In any direction.
        We’re still waiting…

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