“When are Local and State Governments Illegitimate?”

Oh, right about, umm, NOW, in my estimation. Have been since March, in fact.

Should we shrug off crises in blue cities as the fault of voters? The “They’ve made their bed, let them lie in it” trope misses a key point. Did voters in any of these cities really bargain for what they’re getting now? Yes, most claim to be progressives, but did they expect their votes to result in the sacking of their communities? The menacing of their neighbors and themselves? Did they really desire or expect a leftist dystopia?

In our federal system, it falls first upon the states and localities to uphold the mandate of the Constitution’s preamble. But when states and localities fail — by cowardice or design — to fulfill their basic duties, then isn’t it incumbent upon the national government to act?

Day in and day out, we’re told by the MSM not to believe our lying eyes. The leftist-provoked mobs running wild in blue cities are merely protesters, registering grievances and questing for justice in an endemically racist America — an America unjust beyond race, anyway, and from its inception. The cancers growing in blue cities are meant to metastasize across the nation, have no doubt.

To excise these cancers, to reestablish justice and restore domestic tranquility, the national government must act. Leaders in afflicted blue cities, bolstered by their states’ governors, are in rebellion and are trampling the constitutionally guaranteed rights of their citizens, while gestating wider rebellion. If the national government doesn’t act, then it rests upon the citizens to exercise “their right, [snip] their duty, to throw off such [state and local] Government[s], and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

Don’t know as I’d be holding my breath waiting for that, bub. Any appeal to the Constitution seems futile at best anyway, especially when you’re pleading with people who hold the Constitution and every ideal it represents in utmost doot-brained contempt in the first place.

Not that I’m saying there’s no recourse, or no solution, mind you; I assure you, there is.

21 thoughts on ““When are Local and State Governments Illegitimate?”

  1. The voters in the blue cities and states voted for this, at least to the extent that their votes mattered given ongoing Dem vote fraud. If they have not bothered to pay attention to world events or study enough history to recognize where these “blue model” policies were going to lead, well…there is not much that can be done to help them.

    Yes, many (most) of them have been brainwashed since infancy to accept the leftist world view, assumptions, and narrative. But they have failed to try to deprogram themselves. No, it is not easy to do so when you are surrounded by continuous narrative gaslighting from all media sources and authority figures. Yet it is possible — an occasional person does manage it. And that difficult road starts with simply observing the world around you and recognizing that it does not match what you are being told. Start asking questions…and the whole narrative unravels.

    So overall I do hold the blue city/state voters responsible for their situation. They could choose differently. With modern social media and the internet, alternate points of view are readily available to anyone who bothers to ask questions.

    That the Dems are trying to provoke a national response to restore order in the blue hellholes is a separate issue. I believe President Trump clearly sees the trap the Dems have tried to create, so he is being very careful about his response. Many of those calling for federal intervention have motives about as trustworth as the gun grabbers asking whey the gun owners aren’t coming to save the cities. They are NOT deserving of the benefit of the doubt.

  2. “… then isn’t it incumbent upon the national government to act?”

    IF federal law is broken then the “national” government should act. Until then, the constitution is quite clear, IMO, that the state legislature* must call upon the federal government for assistance. You often hear Trump say all they need to do is ask…

    Which is what the constitution requires. Article 4, section 4.

    Then we have the Insurrection Act of 1807. It still requires the legislature/governor to call upon the federal government for assistance to put down an insurrection. Also, to put down an insurrection that makes it impossible to enforce the law or when constitutional protected rights are being trampled.
    The Insurrection Act provides some wiggle room for the president.

    Personally I don’t want the president/federal government to bail out the shithole cities. Let them burn and perhaps** the citizens of those shitholes will make better decisions***.

    *or the governor when the legislature cannot

    **LOL, I’m an optimist

    ***Really Chicago? You thought Lori Lightfoot was the person to lead the city? You should have “STUPID” tattooed on your foreheads.

    1. Yep. President Trump should make the blue hellholes publicly BEG for federal intervention before he does anything. And even if that happens, move very carefully and demand concessions before doing so. No bailouts, ever. Bankruptcy and restructuring in some form may happen, but the left will resist that to the very end. They want to continue exactly as they are, but with the red states paying for their idiocy.

  3. I would say that if the groups operating Insurrections in several States were linked in some way, which we know is the case because Antifa and BLM are National Organizations, The Federal Government could legitimately step in.

    BUT, I do think Trump would be wise not to remember that and have them BEG for Help. Numerous times.
    Perhaps Trump could deny them three times in Caesar or Biblical Fashion.

  4. This whole “blue states voted for this, let them stew in it” ignores the fact that even in the bluest states, there are Republican voters – probably a lot of them – who didn’t vote for this and are suffering.  In fact, in many cases, the suffering is done BY the blue and inflicted ON the red.  For instance, in Hennepin County, Minnesota – Minneapolis – 191,000 voters (28%) voted Trump.  Abandoning Minneapolis means abandoning Trump’s own voters.

    Standing on “But muh Constitution” doesn’t help those voters. Those CITIZENS.  This is fucking WAR.  And our side is the one taking the casualties – either we have a President who fights or we have one who tweets impotently. Right now we have a President who hasn’t done shit for his voters since fucking March. But he’s more than happy to babble about “Hey, black people like me!” Fuck that shit. DO SOMETHING. I’ve outlined perfectly legal strategies he could have used here before.

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    1. Don’t downvote.
      he is right. In a State we could win like MN we can’t just abandon Trump Supporters.

      On the other hand, Skeptic, the GOP better get out the vote there AND stop fraud and re-elect Trump.

      Bottom Line. No President can save you from your Blue Pockets except YOU.
      Someone there needs to start shooting the basterds.

      Trump pardons, if he wins, might be just what you need. N’est ce pas?

      1. What exactly would you have the president do? And under what authority?

        Skeptic claims he already explained it. He claims the “supremacy clause” empowers the president to “DO SOMETHING”. Of course it doesn’t have any bearing on the situation.

        So, be specific – what and under what authority?

        Not my downvote.

        1. There is not much President Trump can do, short term at least, for people living in the blue states/cities. He can provide leadership and talk up alternatives and encourage more conservative policies. He can try to set better national policy, although the Dems controlling the House makes that pretty much a dead letter until at least January. He can appoint constitutional judges to districts and circuits even in the blue areas, which does help over time — even the 9th Circus is getting a little more sane.

          But there is not much else he can do. Blue state residents are living in hostile territory — that fraction of them that are not enthusiastically pushing blue policies.

        2. I’m just saying that I don’t like this “they voted for it meme”.
          In a Democracy they have voted to take away the Rights of Citizens because those Citizens are in the Minority voting wise. So, no, they DIDN’T vote for that.

          As with Segregation, if Civil Rights of a minority are being abused the Federal Government has been given the power to use the National Guard to correct that abuse.

          Should President Trump actually use that Power in this case? I do not think he should. President Trump should use the Bully Pulpit to point out the Abuses and tacitly approve that the Local Minority take such Actions as are needed in correcting those Abuses and the Federal Government would not step in in that case.
          Then he could pardon people afterwards.

          1. Fair enough, I was misreading you. I feel for those that live in those area’s that did not vote for the marxists. I have some sympathy for the dopes that did vote marxist because they are just ill or uninformed dopes, not much, but a bit.

            And there is not one thing that can be done for them. They will have to take it upon their selves to take action. Move, many of them are. Or stand up against the bastards and I’m not seeing much of that.

            Just remember, a president can pardon federal convictions, not state convictions.

          2. In a Democracy they have voted to take away the Rights of Citizens because those Citizens are in the Minority voting wise.

            Which is why the Founders did not want a democracy. The states are supposed to provide a republican form of government for the citizens; an argument could be made for federal action on that basis, maybe. But that would require a judiciary that actually gave a damn about the constitution, which this country has not had for a long time.

            1. I think all states are a republican form of government even if one side cheats to maintain power.

              Then there is californicate with there referendums…

            2. In theory they are Republics but in practice most are Democracies and some are Tyrranical.

              In CA the two candidates for the last Senate Race were BOTH Dems.

              1. In our case the applicable definition is:
                “a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives chosen directly or indirectly by them.”

                By that definition, excluding referendums directly voted upon by the citizens, the states are republics, as required by the constitution*.

                *article 4, section 4 again.

                1. No I understand the theory.
                  It’s more than that though. The way that some of the Republican forms were maintained was indirect Elections of Senators. You voted for your State legislature and they voted for the Federal Senator.

                  However, the major point that has been changed, even with Indirect Representation, was that Majorities were not supposed to be able to abrogate your God Given Rights.
                  Which mirrors the ideas of the Roman Republic and what it meant to be a Citizen.

                  UPDATE: Democracy gives you One Man, One Vote but does not recognize individual Sovereignty. The Greater Good, by Majority Vote, rules.
                  In a Republic you are Sovereign and the Greater Good is not supposed to be a consideration. We grant only certain powers to the Representatives. We do not delegate ALL our Sovereign Powers.

  5. See, here’s the problem with Barry.  Barry is a “classroom conservative,” clinging desperately to Muh True Conservative Principles.  Those “principles” only work against principled opposition. We don’t have that now.  And Barry, I’ve given specifics.  You just refuse to read them.  You’re beyond education – but some here aren’t, so I’ll enumerate a few things again  Here are some things that a President Trump (as opposed to President Tweet) could have done.

    1.  Use the Insurrection Act to bring in National Guard troops to quell the riots. Early on.  “But the Governors have to ask!”  Bullshit.  It’s been done, over the objections of Governors, some two dozen times since the Act was passed. If you don’t believe that, please explain how Eisenhower was able to send National Guard troops into Little Rock to integrate the schools, while Orval Faubus stood in the doorway blocking them?  Send in the Guard.  With orders to shoot to kill, if necessary.

    2.  Or – if you think that’s too extreme (I do not), have them defend Federal buildings.  Yes, they went into Portland, but they were forced to cower inside the building as the apes and animals attempted to burn them alive inside the building. Fuck that.  Give them orders to fire.  “But Kent State!”  Yep, Kent State.  Kent State was a GOOD thing.  Kent State shut down hippie riots for 40 years.  Once the hippies realized that they might be playing for keeps, they went back to the dorms.  Let the Guard handle the action, instead of being fucking spectators and targets.

    3.  The lockdowns.  When the first lockdown orders went into place, he should have had Bill Barr get off of his fat fucking ass and file lawsuits for injunctions on Constitutional grounds to stop the lockdowns.  Perfectly legal – and none of those orders have stood up in court when challenged.  The problem is that those who are most harmed didn’t have the resources to challenge – again, a feature, not a bug.

    4.  Antifa/BLM.  President Tweet declared (on Twitter, of course) that Antifa is a terrorist organization.  So fucking TREAT them like one.  Put Barr the Rotund on them (after all, it’s not like he’s taking time to do anything about Obamagate/Spygate), investigate their funding, prosecute donors for funding terrorism.  Declare BLM the terrorist organization that they are and do the same.

    That’s just a start.  Instead, the Left has gone from win to win in 2020, with no real opposition- unless you count endless Tweets saying “LAW AND ORDER!” opposition.

    I’m going to close this post with a quote from David Cole on Takimag.com:

    “Telling voters that “if the Democrats win, the looters will have free rein” is kinda dependent on those voters being too stupid to realize that the looters have free rein right now, under Trump. I mean, what exactly have Trump, Barr, and the Senate Republicans done to stop any of the mayhem? For the GOP strategy of “If we’re out of power, we’ll no longer be able to protect you from the thugs” to work, the GOP needs to actually be protecting us from the thugs. And it isn’t. William Barr is no John Ashcroft (who put political correctness aside to root out potential terrorists after 9/11). Barr’s done precious little to protect us from the black terrorists of BLM or the white terrorists of Antifa. Trump and Barr have given the electorate no reason to say, “Boy, I’m sure glad these guys are in charge, otherwise there’d be nonstop carnage.”

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    1. See, here’s the problem with Skeptic. He has no clue about Barry, or much of anything regarding the constitution.

      1) I’m not a fucking conservative you fatuous ignorant nitwit.

      2) I do believe in the constitution, as written. It is the greatest document ever written as far as I’m concerned. That it gets ignored by fatuous ignorant nitwits is a problem.

      3) Anyone that can read will notice I mentioned the Insurrection act. For the reading impaired I will quote myself: “Also, to put down an insurrection that makes it impossible to enforce the law or when constitutional protected rights are being trampled.
      The Insurrection Act provides some wiggle room for the president.” This means that under the proper circumstances the president can move without requests by a state.

      4) I have no problem with killing. I would issue shoot to kill orders in every jurisdiction suffering the riots. That is a state provenance until there are sufficient grounds for the feds to move in.

      5) And exactly what makes Skeptic anything other than a “classroom conservative”? Are you out stopping the riots by taking up arms?

      6) Maybe you should just stick with hiding for a month after you get called on your stupid broke dick constitutional opinion that the Supremacy clause gives the president the right to do whatever he wants.

    2. In other words, Skeptic, it is NOT the place of the Federal Authorities to necessarily determine that the legitimacy of the State or Local Government is no longer serving the needs of its Citizens. A concept expressed in the Declaration of Independence.
      It is up to the Citizens of the State and Local Governments to ask for Federal help, and if their Representatives refuse to honor the wishes of the people and petition for that help, it is the People who are Sovereign under that State and Local Government to express their displeasure at their Government and ask for intervention.
      You must rise up against the egregious abrogation of your Rights, show how the Local Government and your Elected Representatives have dishonored the Republican Values of your Minority.

      You must Rebel against the State and Local Governments first. Then ask for Federal Help.

      That’s how I reconcile what you are saying and what Barry is saying.

  6. I think we’re talking past each other here.
    Federalism is the idea that (my words) within the framework of protecting Rights Endowed by Our Creator (end my words) the States should be Free to govern themselves.

    To the extent that the States thought it was an Emergency from WuFlu, perhaps NY and other places could have been right in calling an Emergency. To the point that “spontaneous” protests became riots COULD have been something local police should have dealt with as they saw appropriate.

    So it was CORRECT that President Trump should have backed off initially.
    Remember one thing though with WuFlu massive Right Wing support of Lockdowns and Masking etc was combined with Left Wing support to back Governors doing that.

    So for WuFlu that mutated into Election Flu I can see how Trump backed off. Also, Trump offered help to local governments for Antifa/BLM riots. The Governments refused
    Also a reason why Barry is correct.

    Here’s the point. If local governments are not interested in opening up and/or stop Riots, it is up to LOCAL people to throw off their shackles, fight their governments and show the Feds that there is support for the Feds to intervene against Illegitimate Governments.

    Absent severe local anti-Riot, anti-Lockdown protests there is no way President Trump could logically conclude that Local Governments have lost the mandate of the people, even if that was just a significant minority.

    Skeptic, if you want the Feds to intervene, Locals have to show us how their Governments, under the auspices of the Declaration of Independence, are failing to protect the Rights of the People.
    We, and Trump, in the Federal System cannot make that determination.
    The people who stood on the Michigan State House stairs with guns had the idea.

    Locally you have to make the first move.

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