Much ado about very little.
The Covid-19 death toll may be less than half of what has been recorded because many victims of the pandemic would have died soon anyway, one of Britain’s leading medics has said.
Professor Karol Sikora, a senior oncologist who has built a huge Twitter following for his positive takes on the virus crisis, said doctors were sometimes too eager to put Covid-19 on death certificates.
Speaking to The Telegraph’s Planet Normal podcast – which you can listen to on the player above – Prof Sikora said the virus would be mentioned on death certificates when there was “any hint” that it could have been the cause, without proof, as well as retrospectively over the phone.
The total number of deaths, rather than what is on the death certificates, should be used to judge the impact of the virus, he said, estimating the real death toll to be 20,000 to 30,000.
He said: “It could end up that more people have died because of lack of medical care directly caused by the unavailability of it, because its facilities have been taken over for Covid.
“If we look at the numbers, how many people have really died from Covid that wouldn’t be dead at the end of the year? The numbers vary enormously. The current ONS data suggests 60,000 people have died from Covid. I’m sure that’s not really the case, it’s because of the counting we discussed earlier.”
Ahh, but even though our masters temporarily suspended the COVIDIOT panic so as to allow for the Black Lies Murder/PantiFa riots, don’t dream it’s over. Sundance sees what’s coming.
If we think they’ve thrown the kitchen sink at us, just wait. The Trump campaign has announced the restart of Keep America Great rallies to begin in Tulsa Oklahoma on June 19th. And with that announcement we can immediately predict the apparatus of the resistance forces will once again start pushing the COVID-19 narrative.
My response, SCREW ‘EM.
I refuse to live on my knees.
“Rally to the standard” is a call to arms when a situation is critical, there is no time for lengthy debate, and optimal solutions are needed. The COVID-19 virus was weaponized for political purposes against us and our economy. Nothing they attempt now to try and retake that position should be taken seriously.
Given their overlong record of incompetence, dishonesty, and utter failure, I can scarcely believe how seriously they were taken the first time, myself. The simple truth:
Is there going to be a second wave? Maybe. It doesn’t matter. We know enough about COVID-19 to realize that it’s not an excuse to continue to destroy the economy and send people into destitution. It’s not enough of a threat to destroy jobs, tank companies, and push people into another panic. We need precautions for the most vulnerable among us, namely the elderly and those with preexisting conditions. For the rest of us, we need (the) freedom to live our lives, go to work, go to church, or essentially whatever else we want to do.
It’s about choice. Just because lockdowns are not implemented again doesn’t mean people will be forced to venture forth into the coronavirus-ridden world if they prefer to stay locked down. But their choice to stay at home should not influence our choice to live our lives. The coronavirus didn’t kill the initial estimate of 2.2 million. It didn’t come close. It wasn’t a nothingburger, but it was nowhere near the existential threat we were told it would be.
Patriots need to stand strong against the next wave of lockdown attempts by government. Those of us in blue states or Democratic-majority cities need to be especially vocal with our unwillingness to comply with draconian mandates. We need to protest and take it to the courts if necessary. We need to engage in civil disobedience at times, and that doesn’t mean riot like the left is wont to do. We don’t need more riots. We need more common sense, and fighting Lockdowns 2.0 is a common sense play.
The fight isn’t over. We must keep the pressure up and make sure Democrats and mainstream media know we’re not going to fall for their fearmongering this time. Whether there’s a second wave or not, we must stand strong against authoritarianism.
We ought to be doing that anyway—continually, reflexively, every day and in every way.
Another thing we very much need to do is to stop granting the premise of the nefarious panic-mongers: squirming around about how we can reopen for business and still “maintain adequate social distancing,” “providing hand sanitizer,” wearing masks, etc—as if we were children begging an indulgence from mom and dad by making extravagant promises about what good little boys and girls we’ll surely be.
To hell with all that rot. Anyone who must beg his masters to grant him a little bit of freedom has already lost it. The Clampdown was an outrageous affront to American Constitutional principles; our supine response provided a grim demonstration of exactly how moribund that document really is…and why. The state and local officials who imposed those illegal edicts far exceeded their legitimate authority, and of right ought to be punished severely for that audacious power-grab. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty certain groveling and forelock-tugging about “safety” is NOT the way to go about that.
Defiance, not compliance, people. It’s the American way. Or it was.
“It’s the American way. Or it was.”
Was, I think, was. The reaction to this chinaVirus opened my eyes.
It’s OK to hold a “festival” in 6 city blocks of Seattle, but not OK to go to work or a Trump rally.
Now in Orange County we need to wear masks to go to a Grocdery Store, Mandatory.
These people are all about control, nothing about health.
We’ve had this AWFUL (/s in case anyone doesn’t get me) Virus here for 7 months now, it’s 85-90 degrees out and the number of non-Nursing Home deaths are miniscule. So now we need to mandate masks.
It’s all about the Karens and Chaz’s that hate to see free people going around without the Virtue Signaling of the mask. Because of their Fears or Power Trips.
Either Way, I fucking hate it already.
I am getting so ready to raise the black flag…
Covid-19 perfectly illustrated why “conservatives” always lose. ALWAYS.
The first thing that our so-called “voices” do is grant the premise of the left, and then argue over the details and say “but they’re taking it too FAAARRRR!” Once we grant the premise, we’re fucked and we lose. Examples:
Left: “Covid-19 is so bad that we cannot possibly continue with normal life. We must lock down.”
“Conservatives”: “Well, okay, we had to lock down for a little while, that was perfectly reasonable and understandable, but now we must figure out how to reopen safely. We’ll wear a mask, we’ll socially distance, we’ll allow our temperatures to be take, but please, let us enjoy 25% of the freedoms we are guaranteed by the Constitution.”
The proper response: “No. Fuck you. We are not going to surrender our freedoms over this disease any more than we did the Hong Kong Flu, or the Swine Flu, or the Bird Flu.” NOTE – the only prominent, semi-mainstream conservative voice that has articulated this has been Rush Limbaugh. For Rush this was a double act of principle; he’s going through cancer right now and fits in nearly every high-risk group, yet he is willing to put principle over his own health and fears.
Left: “The worst thing you can be is a racist.”
“Conservatives:” “Yes, racism is horrible. I don’t want any racists near me, ever, they are the worst people in the world. But….but….but….I’m not a racist! I have black friends! Democrats are the real racists!”
The proper response: “Don’t be a silly child. What you call ‘racism’ is basic human tribalism – the desire to be around those who are like you. It’s been a part of human history forever and will always be. Whites are no more or less tribal than any other people, so go fuck yourself, you mewling little turd.”
Left: “The police are racist and corrupt. We must de-fund them.”
“Conservatives:” “Yes, there are some corrupt cops and there are systemic problems with law enforcement. They are poorly trained and managed, but defunding is taking it too far.”
The proper response: “We need police. Primarily to protect ourselves from you. So we will do the right thing, which is address misconduct on the individual level that it exists.”
Left: “There’s no such thing as illegal aliens and deporting ‘undocumented’ people is awful.”
“Conservatives:” “Okay, we have to do something about the families here that are law abiding, but can we please at least deport criminals?”
The proper response: “You’re an idiot. Those people are perfectly well ‘documented’ in their country of origin, so that’s where they should be. And we should help them get there regardless of any other factor than their illegal presence in this country, by rounding them up wherever we find them.”
Left: “Black lives matter!”
“Conservatives:” “Yes, of course they do, and we need to do everything we can to minimize police killings (see above). But we’ll try real hard.”
The proper response: “If black lives matter, you savages should act like it and stop killing each other on an industrial scale. It gets pretty goddamn tiresome to see black males aged 18-49, who make up about 4% of the nation’s population, committing over 50% of the violent crime. So get your own house in order. Special added bonus – if you were less criminal you’d have fewer police interactions which would lead to fewer killings by cops.”
Pick an issue and the first thing that our cuckservatives do is surrender the moral high ground and argue over degrees. When William F. Cuckley described the “conservative” role as “standing athwart history yelling stop,” he defined that for all time. When you describe yourself as “standing athwart history,” you are describing the left as an inexorable force that ultimately cannot be stopped. MacArthur knew it – you cannot win a purely defensive war.
The response, were we true conservatives, would be to not push BACK – but to push HARD. True conservatives would always be looking and acting to roll back government in job lots. Instead of saying we’re going to remove two regulations for each new one, we say that there will be NO new regulations and we will eliminate departments and programs that do nothing useful (read: most of them). We should also be looking for, and eliminating, means of government funding of the Democrat party – for instance, public labor unions are a transfer of money from taxpayers to the Dems. There are a thousand things that conservatives could do to go on the political offensive, but they refuse to.
And that, my friends, is why we lose. EVERY. FUCKING. TIME.
Perfectly stated, Skeptic.
Just one response I’d change: The proper response:
I’d change to:
I choose my associations based upon whatever criteria I choose. That is the basic right of every person. I choose to associate on the basis of content of character. I would hope everyone would do that, but I cannot FORCE my fellow Americans in their private lives to do that. In the public sphere, that’s different. When someone is open to the public as a business they need to serve the public. If their business is catering to specific needs of clients however, they may choose. That is their right.
So if I make hamburgers a certain way, with options, you may enter my establishment and order a hamburger, with those options. Ask me to make a hamburger any other way and I don’t need to accomodate you.
“The Covid-19 death toll may be less than half of what has been recorded because many victims of the pandemic would have died soon anyway, one of Britain’s leading medics has said.”
I made this case very early, when it was an Italian problem. When the vast majority of those dying are older with medical issues already, nature is just adding a push. They were already at the cliff.
Near 8000 people die every day in the USA, that is near 250K per month. The total attributed to chinaVirus death toll to date is <110,000, not even one half month of normal deaths. Spread that out over 60 days, that is less than 2K per day out of a "normal" rate of 8k per day.
Barry, you truly are a heartless bastard. There are all kinds of older people with medical issues (many who don’t die soon despite pushes from nature) but only you can dismiss their premature deaths from the China virus as something to be sloughed off as no big deal.
Fuck you, you’re just a damn liar. You make shit up.
I have never said I didn’t “care”. The truth is just what it is, those that are old and sick get pushed over by something, often enough just the regular old flu. This is just one more virus among hundreds, and I did not create them.
Deaths occur, a quarter million per month in the USA. Every damn month, and you are powerless to stop it. But you “care”, and like all progs you distort or invent your own reality to make you feel better.
You are the one inventing reality. You have absolutely no idea when those old folks would have died absent the China virus. And neither does that schmuck leading medical expert. Those people died before their time.
I know how many die every week. You pretend to “care”, but care nothing about people who have lost everything because of schmucks like you. One more time dumbass, I didn’t create this virus or any other one. Blame god if you like. God must be a heartless bastard.
“Those people died before their time.”
You are an absolute idiot. Cuomo sent infected back into Nursing Homes to raise the Death Toll. Are you a fucking idiot that you can’t see that the people KILLING people are the same setting up the Lockdowns.
Are you so moronic that you can’t see that IF YOU DIE TODAY Henry, you’re just a statistic. Your life meant and means nothing to them. Actually your death would please them immensely, you stupid mewling little deplorable conservative voter. You’re an Egg in their Omlet.
They sent people back to Spain from Wuhan to KILL you.
They WANT Death.
YOU are helping them.
We’ll all be sent to ovens and you’ll say, “well, this was our Time I guess”.
I can’t say when a specific individual old person might have died, in a world where COVID-19 never happened. But when you look at large populations of elderly people, it is possible to predict with a fair degree of accuracy how many of them would have died during a given period of time. There is an entire profession that does precisely this, and they are well paid to do it.
All the “you hate old people and want grandma to DIE!!!!!” crowd never seems to care about the tens of millions of people who have lost their jobs, businesses, and savings. Or the millions (and counting) who have not gotten the medical treatment they would have gotten, some of whom are going to die before their time. Is that group going to end up being larger than the (inflated) total that has died from COVID?
My guess is yes, it will. But CNN and the rest will never run a continuously updating death total and regular reports of “another grim milestone” of how many died because they didn’t get a cancer screening or a “non-essential” surgery. Nope, those people get ignored because they are not helpful to the narrative.
And of course the damage done to people’s freedom and constitutional rights never gets mentioned. Tyrany is great, apparently, as long as it is done in the name of “safety” from the dreaded virus. Enjoy your chains.
To reply to HazHap below.
The Reaichstag fires and every other “emergency” has been used by the Marxists to grab Control and Power
Wherever they have done so, the death tolls have been in the tens of millions, not in the hundreds of thousands.
I estimate that at least 50,000 deaths have been deliberate attempts to increase the death toll.
Ignoring it when Wuhan had a problem but they sent those people abroad to Europe and the US. Ignoring it for three months and then Panic Porn about it to Lockdown. Then sending people back to Nursing Homes to increase the Death Toll. Keeping Subways open.
NOW the spike is “cases” because they ramped testing.
Henry is a Sheeple, being herded to the shearing.
Over 25% of Americans now die in nursing homes. Do some math – 25% of 250K is 62,500 deaths in nursing homes every month.
Now, let’s have a bit of truth. Henry is excepted, he’s nothing but your every day common liar, but for the rest of us, the facts:
The median length of stay in a nursing home before death is 5 months.
50+% die within 6 months of their admission.
65% die within 1 year of admission.
Those are the numbers. Like biology, it is what it is. We know that a majority or near majority of the chinaVirus deaths are nursing home residents. Certainly in many states, like NC, it is a high percentage (+60% in NC).
It’s a no brainer to state “…many victims of the pandemic would have died soon anyway…”. If we define many as half, and of that half their chances of dying are 63% within the next year even without the damn chinese virus. It’s so clear you would think a fucking halfwit from canada living in spain could get it. But no, pointing out the truth is “heartless”.
Yep. Those who really did die of COVID (and not just “with” COVID) are dying before their time. But on average, not very much before their time.
That’s a rather remarkable string of comments arising from one where I basically stick to a very narrow topic.
Yet I learn I’m a liar, a prog, a dumbass, a moronic idiot, a stupid mewling little deplorable conservative voter, an egg in an omelet, part of the sheeple, a fucking halfwit.
Also, somehow I contributed to people losing everything and I am helping people who want death (even I didn’t know I had so much power).
Kenny has the nerve to say “we’ll all be sent to the ovens” and I’ll say “well this was our Time I guess.” No, that’s what you and Barry are saying when you claim the China virus victims were at death’s door anyway without any proof whatsoever. (But, but, oh-so-wise prophet Barry has some numbers.)
By the way, the top medical expert is a cancer doctor, not a virologist, and he only said that the China virus death count MAY be half of what’s been recorded. From that MAY came a lot of the above bullshit.
A lot of the rancor is because so many of the “experts” have proven to be untrustworthy and blatantly political in this entire mess. From the original wildly over-estimated scare numbers (“2.2 millions Americans will die!”) from a model that turned out to be garbage code my first year CompSci prof would have given an F (and from a man who violated his own recommended lockdown to meet with his married lover) to the ever-moving goal posts (“We have to flatten the curve to prevent the ICUs from overflowing” -> “We have to slow the infection rate” -> “We need to stay locked down until there is a vaccine”) to the blatantly political “going to church and get a haircut BAD BAD BAD, protests and rioting GOOD GOOD GOOD”) to the hysterical campaign against HCQ (“it will KILL YOU!!!!!!” for a drug that has been in use for decades) including faked up data in studies published in major medical journals…is it any surprise a lot of people have gotten very touchy and suspicious of the motives of anyone pushing more lockdowns? And of course let’s not forget the intense “You are a heartless bastard who wants grandma to DIE!!!!!” outrage against anyone who so much as suggested that perhaps the nation was overreacting.
No one likes being lied to, and a large fraction of the public knows there is a whole lot of lying going on with this mess. And the people involved and the pattern of lies sure seems to be part and parcel of what has been going on ever since election night 2016 (and even earlier, but that is when it went into overdrive).
“And of course let’s not forget the intense “You are a heartless bastard who wants grandma to DIE!!!!!””
And of course you’ll notice they NEVER call out the actual heartless bastards like Cuomo that sent virus infected people to the nursing homes to kill the vulnerable nursing home population.
Ever wonder why they don’t bring that fact up? Because it bolsters the truth, the vulnerable part of the population were those old and sick in the end stages of life.
Henry is stupid, but not that stupid, which means he’s lying to you.
What I said was that THEY think you are a mewling conservative Deplorable. They do. They tell you they are trying to save lives with Lockdowns and then do everything in their power to create MORE Dead People. If by now you can’t wake up and figure that out, then I figure that the time that you do wake up and figure it out is when they’re marching us to the Ovens. At which point you’ll get the whole point wrong anyway. If that ain’t an idiot then it is the thought process of a crazy person.
Nice try Kenny, but YOU said I was a sheeple being herded to the the shearing. Before that, YOU said I was an absolute idiot. And what do NY governor Cuomo and what THEY think have to do with the specific point I was addressing? It had nothing to do with lockdowns, it related to cherry picking something some schmuck medical “expert” said about China virus death numbers.
“some schmuck medical “expert””
As opposed to some schmuck canadian living in spain. At least the “schmuck medical expert” uses a portion of his brain.
It is very clear here i was talking about ‘they” and “them” and what they think of you.
You can’t even read for comprehension. Which is why we are getting everything say wrong. The Strawmen in Your Mind refuse to let you see the words as written.
You are taking what Cuomo and the others say as True and what we say as “cold heartless bastards” that want people to die.
When Reality is the exact opposite.
Sod off, Stupid. You’re too pathetic to be Swampy.
“Yet I learn I’m a…”
All true. You are a mean uncaring asshole as well.
And incapable of true learning. “Some numbers” are the numbers that apply, but like all good marxist progs you handwave the truth away because it doesn’t fit your carefully constructed narrative. You see, idiot, that’s not “prophecy” as I’m not predicting. Those are the actual numbers.
The only bullshit comes from you. You’re full of it.
It does my heart good to see Hank Derangement Syndrome is alive and well and living in Barry’s tiny brain. (But, hey, he has the numbers.)
Edit: I just added Kenny’s as well. It seems I’m a disciple of Cuomo. Lord, I wish I knew that sooner.
By the way, put a mask on you guys; you’ve been spewing nonsense all over the place for a while now.
The commie returns to prove he’s an idiot. You wear the diaper, likely on both ends.
Henry is the male Karen. Can’t shut us up here can you Karen?
I notice you don’t discuss the numbers. We all know why? Pussy. Meow.
Christ almighty; now I have to add commie and male Karen to the list.
He missed ‘pussy’ to add to his ‘list’.
That is now data. It saays Hank the Crank was wrong the whole time. So he’s doubling down on Stupid.
He’s pulling out everything from the Lefty Prog Playbook.
The person who has VDS (Virus Derangement Syndrome) is Hankl, who is not satisfied that we can’t comment elsewhere, but now wants to come over here to chase us.
Listen Hank. Go crawl back to your safe space where there are no Cruel Bastards like us that say mean things and upset you.
VDS, perfect! Karen Henry is a good example.
Hey pseudo tough guys, how come you you start whimpering and throw out the mega insults when I occasionally make some comment over here. How brave of you.
As for crawling back to my safe place, I don’t take orders from a Don Nadie.
The POS shit comes here to throw out insults, then cries when henry karen gets insulted back.
I’ve been commenting here way longer than you have.
More henry karen bullshit.
Ask Ironbear. We’ve exchanged opinions in the past.
Not just a Karen, a two year old Karen – “Mommy, I was here first”.
After DP then CF was the next site I discovered. 2002.
You sound like an Arab claiming Palestine now.
“Arab claiming Palestine”
Kenny, I was responding specifically to Barry, but I see you two have joined forces for the HDS tag-team championship.
F’ing two year old.
VDS Hank The Karen Arafat has spoken. We must now comply and not gang up on him.
I love it: Barry, the onesie wearer who should have parental guidance when he steps on a ladder and kennycant do wit; what a team.
Have you actually read what Mike wrote? Perhaps you should. Bye!
Heh, Henry karen was in such a hurry to call me a “heartless bastard” that he missed the point of the Mike’s post, which is basically the same as ours.
Hmm, so if pointing out the truth make one a heartless bastard, what are you if you ignore the truth?
A Henry karen.