“Can Radical Federalism Save America?”

Worth a try, of course. But doubtful. Very, very doubtful.

Eminent conservative thinker Angelo Codevilla had an article titled “To Rescue a Nation” last week at the American Mind that’s very much worth reading. To save the republic means ending the escalating tensions and conflicts precipitated by growing divisions. A radical approach is necessary.

To allow divergent peoples to peacefully coexist and find some commonality of purpose so the nation may survive, differences must be accepted and governance made to conform to that reality. To achieve that good result, Codevilla asserts that we need a “radical de-centralization” or, as might be said, a radical federalization of the nation. It’s the remedy for saving the country from disunion or tyranny. But is this worthy goal achievable?      

Almost certainly not. At this point, whether it’s even desirable or not is eminently debatable. There’s a certain inconvenient reality the more reticent and respectable commentariat overlooks that undoes every argument they try to make: the nation is ALREADY split, in every truly meaningful sense. The divergence of political ideology, ambition, and intent has widened into a yawning chasm. It is a gap that can no longer be bridged. The point is moot; tyranny is already in place, and the only thing disunion lacks is an official, de jure proclamation of it.

The arguments proferred by authoritarian Leftists—who loathe the Founders’ conception of what constitutes just and legitimate governance to their very marrow—and those of Real Americans—who revere those noble principles, mourn their loss, and wish to see them restored to their rightful primacy—are wholly intractable. Tyranny and liberty are incompatible; sooner or later, the eternal conflict between them will be resolved. History shows that it will not, it cannot, be done peaceably unless one side acquiesces. The author knows this as well as the rest of us do:

We’re tempted to say that Codevilla’s vision aligns the nation more closely with its inception, with the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union — at least in that spirit. A looser federation of states and enhanced localities with Washington more focused on core functions — national defense being preeminent – would boost chances of the United States continuing as one nation.

But there’s a sticking point, and it isn’t trifling. In fact, for the nation’s elites (the oligarchs — Codevilla uses that descriptor, too) and the left, radical decentralization is precisely what they oppose. Whereas republican America would, and portions of Woke America may, welcome a significant decentralization, which amounts to a policy of “live and let live,” a radical centralization of the nation is what oligarchs and the left seek.

The oligarchs do so, principally, for power that leads to wealth. The left, which holds to Marxism, lusts for power and seeks wealth but also craves control over lives. Marxism — not judged by its blarney, but by its practice – demonstrates that it’s about hierarchy, concentrations of power, and control — not of an authoritarian stripe, but a totalitarian one, as history makes abundantly clear.

Today, these anti-liberty factions are playing a zero-sum game, and they’ve given no indications that they’re willing to compromise or are open to realignments of government that thwart their aspirations.

Which is precisely the tack Team Liberty must now take also. It was the starry-eyed “willingness to compromise” and blasé acceptance of “realignments of government that thwart their aspirations,” combined with their fatally-mistaken granting of an undeserved assumption of honest intentions and fair-mindedness to the Left that got us all in this mess.

Alas, this is where I must part ways with the author, who otherwise seems to grasp our conundrum more acutely than most.

Codevilla says that to rally and lead a national movement a galvanizing figure must emerge. He doesn’t appear to be keen on Trump, because he believes Trump is too self-focused. Here we disagree. Trump has largely galvanized Red or republican America. As president, despite relentless hostilities, he accomplished for the nation. He drew large audiences, in person and across mediums, including last Saturday night at an Ohio rally. Yet, the organization behind Trump has been inchoate and most often ad hoc. Trump may be the General Washington republican America needs. What he requires are able lieutenants who can effectively organize behind him.

In a word: NO. Trump’s time has passed. He had his opportunity, and whatever may have motivated him to do so, he failed to seize it. He may or may not have some part to play in what’s to come, I really couldn’t say. But he has shown himself to be a far less effective champion than Real Americans had hoped. Love him or hate him, when the rubber met the road he took his foot off the gas and stalled the car. I can no longer see him as the man to get the motor running again and drive us on to where we need to be.

With the closer, the article gets back in track.

A critical consideration is that the oligarchs and left would offer robust counters to republican America’s “defensive” offensives. The stakes are sky-high for them. We must grasp the nature of the enemy.

Men and women, bent on domination, and in many cases, with years of sweat equity invested in achieving their aims, aren’t going to be quickly deterred. They will fight and fight hard. As we saw during the Trump presidency, they have no compunction about using false accusations and illegality (Russia Collusion hoax), destroying reputations, brazen disinformation (the January 6 “insurrection”), resorting to election chicanery, stoking public fear as a means of manipulation (COVID lockdowns), and loosing Antifa and BLM to incite riots. Exposed in 2020 was the ugliness and, in fact, ruthlessness, of anti-liberty factions. They can get uglier and more ruthless without a doubt.

And they will. None but a fool could have any doubt about that by now. As has been more than amply demonstrated, they intend to rule. There is no length to which they won’t go to make that happen—none. Will we let them?

Which isn’t an argument against fully joining the fight and committing to nothing less than total victory. Republican America has plenty at stake, too: the rule of law and liberty. It’s simply to impart the understanding that in war — cold, hot, or somewhere in-between — it’s best to anticipate a greater intensity of conflict for a longer duration than decent people would hope, particularly when wars are civil in nature.

The status quo is unsustainable. The question is, can republican America win the day, ushering in a fundamental decentralization of the nation, thereby permitting divergent peoples to share one nation, bound by some traditions and some shared beliefs and aspirations? Perhaps. Or will this clash between very different worldviews lead to the permanent partition of America? Or will it boil down to a zero-sum game, with one or the other side prevailing? Much awaits future events.

There should be no further discussion of whether “republican American” CAN win the day. It’s deflating, demoralizing thumbsuckery, and we can no longer afford to indulge in it. “Republican America” MUST win, and that’s flat. No matter what it takes, no matter how distasteful the actions required of us, the alternative is far too terrible to contemplate.

Courtroom wrangling, legislative mucking about, the strongest imaginable words, idle daydreams of a way out that doesn’t involve resorting to violence against an enemy that has already done just that—none of these, alone or combined, are anywhere near sturdy enough tools to wreak a reconciliation between two adversaries whose commitment to diametrically-opposed beliefs is unswerving. He who flinches from battle has already lost the war. Try as we might to find another path, throughout human history it has always come down to the same, simple equation: One side must win. One side must lose.

We MUST not lose.

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MrHead

Welcome to Thunderdome!

Two men enter, one man leaves.
_______________________________________________

High Points:

Loose Federalism, Decentralization, Live & Let Live, Maximum Latitude for each and Minimum Interference, Maximum Autonomy.

I think the majority of us, most Americans, can agree to live together under these terms. I think most Americans would prefer it.

I think it’s a much, much smaller percentage than the media & the establishment try to portray that actually wouldn’t accept these terms (especially given the grim alternatives). It’s not half, by any means. It’s highly doubtful that it’s even a third. I’d say they’d be extremely lucky if it’s 10 or 12 percent that would truly be opposed to those terms.

Whatever the actual percentage is, I’m willing to bet it drops precipitously when securing victory means risking getting shot in the face.

Live & let live will seem like an extremely reasonable & attractive option when faced with that reality. “Yes sir, thank you sir. Here, let me get the door for you, sir.” It will be niceties & politeness all around.

However, to get to the point of niceties, there may be some shooting in the face required. I truly do hope I’m wrong about that. But it’s not looking good.

I mean the calculus is not complicated.

From their side:

Hmm… let me get this straight. All I have to do to avoid, even the risk, of getting shot in the face, is live & let live. I still get to do pretty much whatever I want… Ya, ok. Not a tough choice. Live & let live it is.

Then the calculus from our side:

Hmm… all I’ve got to do to not get shot in the face is be a slave & never ever get to be free to do what I want again, quite likely being genocided at some point after suffering immeasurably. And I get to watch every member of my family & everyone I’ve ever known be a slave & suffer immeasurably until they’re genocided too. Hmm… that’s a tough one. How about fuck no, & oh, btw here, have bullet for the road on me. No charge.

If push comes to shove, this is only going to end one way.

All that being said. It does seem like folks are galvanizing behind the general consensus in the high points. I’m seeing it in a lot of places. Also a lot of folks appear wise enough to know to focus on the head of the snake rather than the pawns, though that part/message does appear to need more work/time to develop.

I take heart that those who are capable of mind & paying attention seem to be generally getting on the same page though. (Which frankly, is not much different than the page America started on, which I think is another plus.)

All in all, very, very good developments. Definitely progress, & definitely a better position consensus wise than previously. If we had to (& we might) we could fight a war from here.

Whatever differences exist, for the most part, seem relatively trivial & unimportant. They’ll work themselves out as we go. In fact, adhering to the high points above is what lets those very differences, whatever they may be, exist, & still be relatively immaterial. (Thank you Founders!)

So, all in all, I’m feeling pretty good about where we are. Lots to do still of course, but in a pretty good position.

Most importantly, it seems like everyone has accepted where we are & what needs to be done. Those that haven’t, they were always going to be late to the party or no shows anyway, so no big deal.

So it seems like where we are is:

We’ve got one side making a live & let live offer: “Hey, you do whatever you want, we’ll do whatever we want, we can all go about our merry way in peace”.

Then we’ve got the other side: “Fuck you. You’re my slave. You’ve got to do whatever I say.”

I’d say that’s about as incompatible as it gets.

So this begs the question, who’s got the obvious moral high ground here?

I don’t care how snazzy your wordsmith & propaganda skills are, you just ain’t puttin’ lipstick on that pig.

One side has got the high ground six ways to Sunday, & it ain’t the enemy.

One thing money & power can’t buy is moral high ground.

So, good luck digging yourself out of that tar pit. Never gonna happen.

Moral high ground = support; local, national, & international. Can’t win wars without it. Least ways not when you’re out gunned & out manned.

An illegitimate regime without the moral high ground, little to no local, national, or international support, out gunned & out manned.

Who the fuck do they think is gonna fight this war for them?

MarkMatis

The shithole hives have FULL support from the ChiComs. THAT is who they know will fight this war for them!!!

Bill Quick

The problem with the federalism approach can be summed up in a single sentence: Chicago, and downstate Illinois.

Our natural divisions are no longer state borders. They are urban, suburban, rural cultural and ideological lines.

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Botched_Lobotomy

No, its not worth a try. It is doomed to fail from the start. Codevilla is not a dumb man and he’s a pretty good writer. But, like all conservatives (of which he is apparently an eminent thinker), Codevilla has ceded language to the Left and accepted the Left’s premises and is now stuck in a paradigm created by the Left. Thus, nothing he offers can fix our situation because the foundation for his analysis is wrong.

There is no way “to allow divergent peoples to peacefully coexist and find some commonality of purpose so the nation may survive.” There is no country on earth where “divergent peoples” peacefully coexist. Any nation with some “divergent peoples” have a majority people that rule, oftentimes oppressively, over the minority people. And its readily apparent that “divergent peoples” are not peacefully coexisting in America. Nor should we even consider giving away any portion of our homeland to “divergent peoples.” There is no end to the demands and the ceding once you start down that path.

The Constitution itself states, “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

Posterity means the descendants of a person or a people. The people who created America and wrote the Constitution were white Christians descended from Europe. America was not created for Somalis or Chinamen or Muslims or Hare Krishnas or Atheists or even Furries. It was created by and for white Christians.

Until people on the right (there is no hope for the conservatives who have failed to conserve anything but Leftist language and policy) accept that fact and take action to restore America to the founders original vision and purpose we will never be able to fix our current predicament.

Vox Day has it right when he says Diversity + Proximity = War. The only way to fix America is to remove all people who are not white Christians and send them back to live amongst their own people. The atheists (ie white Democrats and other assorted individuals with no morals or ethics) can live with the communists and the furries can live with the Japanese. I haven’t figured out where to send the Hare Krishnas yet, probably New Zealand.

This is not to say that all other races and religions are inferior or unworthy of life. It is only to clarify that the American form of government, created by and for white Christians, will not provide the foundation and environment for other races and religions to succeed and thrive as it does for white Christians. This is why the “divergent peoples” and their atheist leaders want to fundamentally change America.

Charles Murray has done yeoman’s work exposing the differences between the races although he is too cowardly to reach the obvious conclusion from his findings in terms of what they mean for America. The races are different. Some better at certain things while others are better at different things. The religions are different. Some are more tolerant and some are less tolerant. The best society for Hispanics may well not be the best society for Arabs. The best form of government for muslims may not be the best form of government for hindus.

Obviously there are exceptions to every rule. Men like MLK, Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell and many others have done well under a white Christian form of government. Note they are all at least Christians. But one look at the poverty levels and incarceration rates and its clear that most blacks do not thrive in a nation created for white Christians. Now look at how white Christians are doing after the influx of other races and religions. We’re in the fight of our lives to simply survive and its not going well.

There is only one solution for fixing America. But don’t look for brain-washed Americans who spew Leftist nonsense like “proposition nation” and *”judeo-christian” and “America is an idea and not a place” to help in fixing what ails America. We must accept the facts and the truth if we are to have any hope of reclaiming the United States of America. If we don’t, then we will leave nothing for our Posterity but oppression and enslavement.

*We are not a “judeo-christian” nation. No Jews signed the Declaration of Independence or voted to accept the Constitution. They had no role in creating the United States of America at its founding. The term “judeo-christian” is gobbledygook made up by the Left to diminish the importance of Christians in the founding of America. They are two different religions. “Judeo-christian” means the same thing as “islamo-judaism” and “hindu-atheism” which is to say it means nothing.

Barry

Vox day is an idiot that sometimes comes up with a useful nugget. Many of the “white Christians” are boomers that Vox wants to snuff out. Not that he can, being that he doesn’t even live in this country.

Your analysis is all wrong. There is only one fucking problem. It’s called welfare. Eliminate it. People that work together can and do get along just fine regardless of their color. They will create the same conditions for all and those that cannot conform will then be eliminated. Novel approach, one that has not been tried.

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Bill Quick

Unfortunately, Barry, you know as well as I that in order to eliminate welfare, which oozes from all levels of government, and has to include SS (beyond what a recipient has paid in plus accrued interest), Medicare, etc., you will have to burn and bury the entire Ruling Class. Plus the Boomers who are the primary recipients of SS/Medicare.

Not gonna happen.

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Barry

Agreed, just like we are not going to round up all the non white non Christians and deport them.

Botched_Lobotomy

I never said we were going to round up all non-white, non-Christians. I merely said Codevilla’s plan was doomed to fail and that if we wanted to return to America as it was founded we would have to remove all non-white, non-Christians.

Unfortunately, too many Americans are still fooled by the Left’s propaganda and unwilling to see reality as it is rather than as they wish it were. They believe that if we just teach the savages English, get them jobs, make them take a civics class and force them to pull up their pants and wear a belt, then golly-gee they’ll be just like us!

I have no idea why so many white Americans refuse to see the truth. Maybe the fear of being called Rayciss is so ingrained they can’t bring themselves to see the threat right in front of their eyes. Maybe the Left’s propaganda that they should hate themselves and their fellow whites is so deep that they don’t think they deserve to live.

Weirdly, we can see the evil of the Leftists/Communists pulling the strings but we refuse to see the problem of handing those same Leftists an imported army of barbarians to use against us.

Regardless, we won’t be doing any rounding up. If anything we’ll be the ones rounded up. But before that we’re going to have to fight through millions upon millions of illiterate feral savages that we brought into this country for Leftists like Soros and Schwab to use to destroy us.

Time is running out for us to have any chance at all of winning. Sadly, most white Americans won’t admit their naivety until they’re being hacked to death by our fellow Somalis and Syrians and Guatemalans. Happy Independence Day!

Barry

I never said we were going to round up all non-white, non-Christians. …if we wanted to return to America as it was founded we would have to remove all non-white, non-Christians.

I think you should read what you said. Perhaps you meant to say the removal is the only solution, but not going to happen. I have no clue, you can clarify that.

You speak of waking up. I think you are asleep. It is the white marxists at the top controlling everything below. They create the black boogeyman that scares you into believing that a mere 12% of the population is in control.

You can remove the 12% and you’ll still have the same marxist in control. What religious test to do you plan to put into effect to deport those that don’t meet with your religious belief? Talk about being an anti-American, you’re right up there with Lenin his self. Thanks, but no. People like you are dangerous to freedom and liberty.

Who do you think controlled the Soviet Union?

Botched_Lobotomy

That’s correct. We won’t deport the people who do not belong here because there are too many people who refuse to do what’s necessary in order to return America to the nation it was created to be.

And now I’m like Lenin because I believe that America was founded by white Christians for white Christians. Lenin advocated for revolution simply as a means to install communism so he and his cronies could rule. I advocate deportation as a means to reinstate freedom and liberty and the preservation of white people. I don’t get to rule nor do I want to. The comparison is nonsensical.

Since you keep bandying numbers about to prove I have an irrational fear of a miniscule boogeyman, lets take a look at the numbers.

There are 330 million people in America. Using your 12% number means there are almost 40 million blacks in America. There are 60 million hispanics in America, 7 million Jews and 3 and a half million muslims.

That’s 110 million people.

Perhaps we can agree that communists in America are primarily in the Democrat party. 90% of blacks vote Democrat (36 million). 66% of Hispanics vote Democrat (40 million). 75% of Jews vote Democrat (5 million) and two-thirds of muslims vote Democrat (2 million). That’s 83 million.

Obviously not all of these people vote or are of age to vote. Even if we went crazy and cut the number in half, that’s still over 41 million minorities who vote Democrat/Communist.

Joe Biden supposedly got 80 million votes. That’s a blatant lie. But lets go with it anyway. If we take away the approximately 40 million votes from minorities, Biden gets a total of 40 million votes.

Trump supposedly got 75 million votes. That too is a blatant lie (he got more). Lets overestimate his share and say a third of his total was from minorities. That’s 25 million. Take away the 25 million and Trump has 50 million votes.

So Trump wins the election by 10 million votes if there are no minority votes. Thus its incorrect to say the marxists would still be in control even without minorities.

And that’s not even taking into consideration how different the country would be without gullible blacks, hispanics raised under socialism and all the whites who would be less susceptible to the marxist “white guilt” propaganda. Would a white nation be teaching critical race theory and anti-whiteness? Would our people be better educated so as not to fall for the idiocy of communism? Would we still believe in God and live life with a moral foundation instead of the disgusting degenerate culture we have now?

You can call me Lenin, you can call me Hitler, you can call me Rayciss. I don’t care. Facts are facts. Without minorities the communists don’t have a prayer of taking over America. With the minorities to serve as their foot soldiers and propagating like rabbits, its becoming inevitable that the communists will win.

So congratulations on not being a racist. Your reward is that you get to be enslaved by communists.

kennycan

There are far more White Americans who are Marxist TWANLOC that have family roots that go back a century or more.

You’re missing the forest for the Black Trees.

Where are you going to send the Bidens, Buffetts and Gates people?

Botched_Lobotomy

I’m going to send the Bidens, Buffets and Gates people to Hell where they belong.

I think I was pretty clear that the communists would have to go as well.

kennycan

Sounds more like you’ll judge people by their ethnicity and skin color.

Gates and Buffett are nominally
White Christians. Yet you say this Country was founded for the benefit of White Christian Progeny.

IIRC Buffett’s ancestors were Cajuns here before there was an America.

What say ye? Seems kind of a problem for you there to judge people by ethnic and racial lines. They don’t fit your “deportation” profile.

We have a very simple guide. It’s called The Constitution. Those who violate it should be judged by law and Justice should be blind to everything except individual guilt.

Unfortunately, there will be a situation in which there will be judgement meted out regardless of individual guilt. I do not condone it, but I realize it is coming.

Remember though, that I blame you as well as them for the Collectivist mindset that leads to that point. If we are triumphant I hope to hold you to your guilt as much as I held them.

Have a lovely evening.

Last edited 19 days ago by kennycan
kennycan

Plus many of those Hispanics are descendants born in America (like in Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, California) before they were part of America or before there was an America. They’re as American as any White Texican or Okie is today.

Then there are East Asians who fled Commies and hate them, like people from Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong.

You’re ridiculous. America was created for people who accept Individual Liberty, Freedom, Limited Government and Individual Responsibility.

Far too many White “Christians” do not fall into that category and way more non-White non-Christians do believe in those things.

Your getting distracted by the Dem Tribalism Canard.

That is also not to say that the Commies aren’t trying to hurt and defeat White Christians. They are.

Botched_Lobotomy

My point was that returning to the America envisioned by the Founding Fathers would be the best civilization for white Christians.

Every place on earth has been conquered by one group or another at different times in history. I’m not interested in the Indians or Mexicans who lived on the land before it became the United States of America.

“America was created for people who accept Individual Liberty, etc, etc.”

I rather doubt that George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and the rest fought a war and created a country so that anyone in Mongolia who said they loved freedom could live here. Maybe they didn’t understand the word Progeny when they used it in the Constitution.

I’d love to read some writings by the Founding Fathers that support your contention. Coincidentally, I read a good article this morning on this very topic that might be of interest.

Racial Unity and the American Republic

kennycan

They wrote “for their progeny” but they didn’t write “only for their progeny”.

First off there were plenty of non-White non-Christians living there at the Founding. Jewish people in America weren’t citizens and their Progeny don’t count? Just as an example.

Why didn’t they write into the Constitution stricter immigration and citizen laws? Why not explicitly write “only White Christians may apply”?

They might have even written “White Anglo Saxon Protestant” and you would be deporting 80% of the Country to…well, somewhere.

They didn’t write that.

I wouldn’t want you in charge of determining who is “American” anymore than I would want Joe Biden doing that and for the same reason. You’d narrow down your “qualifications” to encompass a narrow “Elite” oligarchy to rule over us.

I am all for restricted immigration, based upon merit, building the wall, sending illegals back, and teaching American Ideals to everyone that is here now. To the point that they need to take a Civics Test to get any benefits of being here legally. Stringent tests, more stringent than now even, for becoming a citizen. I am even in favor in making English the only language of government so that people here are forced out of their native language into learning English.

None of that would preclude any race, religion or ethnicity from doing what is necessary to become American. Not merely live here, but be Of Here.

Barry

Facts are facts.

Which you blatantly ignore in favor of being the dictator that decides who is white enough or Christian enough to live in America.

Are you a racist? I don’t give a damn whether you are or not.

Are you dictatorial? Yes, that part is certain.

Are you delusional? Yes, if you think actual Americans would follow your lead.

1930, 10% of the country were negro. Not much greater now at 12-13%. They have no more power now than in 1930 when they routinely voted republican. The republican (spit) party that conspired with the democrats and chinese to steal the election of 2020.

Your fear is irrational and caused by the white bastards that do everything possible to stir up trouble. And that is the fact which you simply ignore. Deporting 100million + people would solve what problem?

The dictators that wish to enslave you will still be here.

Barry

I advocate deportation as a means to reinstate freedom and liberty and the preservation of white people. I don’t get to rule nor do I want to. The comparison is nonsensical.

Exactly who is going to carry out your plan to deport 110 million people since you “don’t get to rule”? You think deporting over half of Texas is the reinstatement of freedom and liberty?

Botched_Lobotomy

I’m not deciding anything. I’m not dictating anything. The qualifications were determined by the Founding Fathers who created the country for their progeny; ie descendants of white Europeans who were Christians.

I think we’ve already covered that there are more people like you than there are like me so we won’t be deporting anyone. We’ll simply continue on as we have been until we have a civil war or the people of color are the majority and slaughter all the white people at the behest of their communist leaders and with plenty of help from evil, traitorous whites. But yes, I think deporting all people of color and non-Christians would mean the reinstatement of freedom and liberty for white Christians.

You keep harping on the percentage of blacks in the country but I clearly said we should deport ALL people of color and ALL non-Christians. That’s a much larger figure than 10%.

As for blacks being 10% of the population in 1930 and not having much power, what was the percentage of whites at that time? Compare that to the percentage of whites in America at this time. Notice how it has decreased significantly in the interval even though the percentage of blacks has not increased? That’s because in addition to blacks we’ve added lots of other people of color; hispanics, asians, arabs, etc. Blacks may stay at 10-15% but whites will have gone from 90% to a minority in short order. Can you name all the countries where white people are a safe, thriving minority?

As an aside, I find it rather funny that you think it would be the worst thing if we sent Guatemalans back to Guatemala, Africans back to Africa and Chinese back to China. What’s the big deal?

For some reason you seem to believe that I’m ignoring the communists. In my initial comment I stated that all the communists would be deported as well. If you prefer they be lined up and shot, that’s fine with me. In any event, the crux of my argument has been that the communists use minorities to implement their agenda. We get rid of their minions and its a lot easier to deal with the commies.

We’ve covered my thoughts and what I would like to see done pretty thoroughly. What would you do to fix America? Please be specific. Getting rid of the communists is a bit too general. Who are the communists? Gates, Soros, Schwab and their ilk? The Democrat party? The CCP? How do we get rid of them? How do we deal with the ones who don’t live here? Do we start a war with China?How does America survive as a land of freedom for all the people of the world when many of those people have no idea what freedom entails and requires?

kennycan

That whole Freedom of Religion thing flies right over your head.

Catholics weren’t considered Christians once upon a time. They were Papists who had forsaken Christ for Worship of the Pope.

I will NOT accept your vision of America as a land of Collectivism founded upon WASP Tribalism, as much as I won’t accept any other Tribalism from the Socialists. You’re just a Leftist fighting the Feudal Wars of the pre-Enlightenment that the Founders rejected.

We are Individuals. We are Sovereign over ourselves. We have Rights endowed by our Creator. Our Government is Limited and has no Power to establish Religion.

You are denying the Constitution when you do this. Anyone who accepts the ideals of the Enlightenment, the writings of Locke and Jefferson and Adam Smith and others, that accepts the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution as the principles we live by, accepts Free Markets and Capitalism as the best that humans have achieved thus far, are alright in my book, regardless of whether you judge them by externalities or not.

Happy Fourth of July and the Birth of American Exceptionalism.

Barry

The qualifications were determined by the Founding Fathers who created the country for their progeny; ie descendants of white Europeans who were Christians.

Horseshit.

But yes, I think deporting all people of color and non-Christians would mean the reinstatement of freedom and liberty for white Christians.

LOL. Where do we line up for the whiteness and religious test?

Just how white do I have to be to remain? Do I need to stay out of the sun for a while? Are Italians with their olive skin going to qualify? Do we need to come from Finland?

And how religious and what sects qualify? Do I need proof of church attendance? Do we need to handle snakes to prove ourselves? Our Catholics included or is it Protestants only? Seems historically those two have not mixed well, why they’ve even gone so far as to kill each other.

No one but some nut from Aryan Nations can believe in this horse puckey, so I’m guessing your just a troll trying to stir the pot. Or maybe Mr FBI trying to get someone to state the wrong opinion.

Ironbear

Hmm. I’m not from the Aryan nation, yet I can see that Tribalism is coming and it won’t go away. I’m a breed: the Aryan’s would have me.

Tribalism is already here in every cohort except for the White American one.

You and Kenny do demonstrate one thing, however: there’s not only no political will to effectively deport even the illegal aliens, much less the paperwork Americans and the Leftists; there’s not even an agreement on what the problem is and where.

So… we left with only the old fashioned solution. And it’s coming down the line, one way or another, regardless of what any of us think about it.

South Africa/Rhodesia, or Rwanda? I won’t even say “pick one”, because I don’t think the choice will be up to any of us.

kennycan

Tribalism is here because Dems are bringing different tribes here since 1965 and deliberately teaching them that they are more noble than White Christians.

I live in a place full of White Christian Progeny who are TWANLOC and not worthy of the the term “American” and I know plenty of Asians who are worthy of the term American.

Barry

I’m a breed: the Aryan’s would have me.

I doubt it. And if you read carefully you will find that Mr Lobotomy plans to have you removed along with Kenny and I, as you are certainly not pure enough on the religious front. That’s if you can pass the white purity test.

I’m all for rounding up and deporting every single illegal alien. I’m not for rounding up Ironbear or those like him.

kennycan

Plus, where did I say I wouldn’t deport illegals? I certainly would. Plus no anchor babies if here illegally or on travel visas. Long term work visas I would consider, but I have my doubts.

The Leftists I’d imprison for Treason after a Trial. Marxism is an Enemy Idealism and makes you a ChiCom ally.

kennycan

You assume I am not like you. Why?

Botched_Lobotomy

Lol. Sounds like you live in an all white area. I’m sure if we just get the illiterate feral Knee Grows in East NY, south Chicago or Baltimore jobs at McDonalds and in construction then we’ll all just live happily ever after.

Too many white people are drunk on the Left’s Kool Aide. Maybe they’re too scared to see the reality of our situation and prefer to live in fantasy land where we just need to do X and cats and dogs will live in harmony.

With this mindset the invaders will soon overwhelm the country and white people will be eradicated without a shot being fired. Just a footnote in the history books with historians left to ponder not how they were conquered but why they allowed the conquerors in at all.

Barry

I’m <20 miles in a straight line from the largest set of projects in NC. Hardly an all white area. NC is 22% black.

There are just as many, by percentage, deadbeat white people. And by sheer numbers they overwhelm deadbeat blacks. It’s not even close.

Who is my problem? A bunch of powerless black folks or Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Soros, Clinton, the dope Biden? Fauci, Pence or some poor black fool that lives in the projects?

Nope, sorry, but my problems would be minor if I could deport the white people on my list.

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Botched_Lobotomy

You’re missing the forest for the trees. Sure, Soros, Schwab, Gates and their fellow Leftists are set on destroying America and are our enemies. And yes, there are plenty of mentally ill/ignorant whites who betray their race.

But where do these Leftists get elected? Soros has been able to install his minions thanks to voters in Oakland, Baltimore, Chicago and other urban areas. Who would vote for these Leftists? Only the ignorant and people who have voted for communists in their home countries.

Without “people of color”, what power would the Leftists have in America? The only support they get from whites are from the mentally ill, the homos, the feminazis, the trannies, the Jews, atheists, self-hating whites and greedy evil politicians. We could deal with these fools rather easily if they weren’t backed by millions of minorities prone to violence.

The fact that there are deadbeat whites in America is not a very good argument to continue adding millions of deadbeat people of color. We’ll find out who you need to fear when the economy crashes, the food shortages arrive and the power grid goes down. I don’t recall seeing a whole lotta whites besides the Antifags burning and looting all last summer.

And if you think that’s gonna be fun just wait until the POC are 50% of the population. Then the real slaughter starts.

Barry

Blacks are 12-13% of the population. The white population without hispanics is 61% and with the hispanics it’s 77%. And you think the black vote is putting the marxists in office?

Talk about not seeing the forest for the tree’s.

It is the white fuckers, the marxist ones, that gin up the black vote in those enclaves that scare you. It is the white fuckers that are cheating such that we, and you, don’t even have a clue what the real vote is in those enclaves that scare you.

Nope, sorry, just like the jewish boogeyman, the black boogeyman is just an invention of the marxist to frighten people, allowing the white fuckers that need to be killed free reign.

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Last edited 21 days ago by Barry
Barry

“The fact that there are deadbeat whites in America is not a very good argument to continue adding millions of deadbeat people of color.”

Of course, I’m not arguing to add deadbeats of any color. I’m all for sending every illegal packing and for rounding them up to send them on their way. I’m for shutting down legal immigration except for a very focused group of people that would be good for our country. No, that doesn’t include anyone from Somolia.

Eisenhower understood what to do and did it. That’s your model.

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kennycan

I’ll bet most people under 45 have no idea what Ike did wrt Illegals.

Plus they’ll faint when they learn it was called Operation Wetback.

Barry

I’d bet most people of any age don’t know anything at all about “Operation Wetback”.

kennycan

My parents would have but one is in the upper 80’s now and Mom has passed.

I did not know about it myself until recently, so you may be right.

I bet if told about it most people under 45 would not believe it happened.
Ike is one of the last Republicans they couldn’t call a Fascist Nazi.

kennycan

Trump was our last chance to work within the System to try to fix the System.

Trump could not get it done because the System is irreparably damaged. The Constitution means nothing, the Courts and Laws don’t work and are applied unevenly, the Legislatures timid and abrogated their Powers, and the Executive Branch loaded with Treasonous Vermin and Wannabe Tyrants who directly disobeyed commands from the President and Commander-In-Chief. Our Elections are worthy of Venezuela. The Supreme Court are lackeys and only two of them are interested in actual Liberty and Proper Rulings. We have Secret Courts, Secret Spying, Secret Wars and Star Chambers. We have Kangaroo Courts railroaded police and decorated, patriot Generals, and going after any ally that had the nerve to help Trump in his quest to fix things.

To sum. The State of the Nation is rotten to the core and only getting worse and nothing, NOTHING, can fix it from the inside anymore.

Wait until the lightbulb goes on over the heads of many people about what happens to the Federal Debt if several States start leaving the System.

Twenty Eight Trillion to date and we’re adding trillions more a year under Not The President. Do you think they’re going to let Florida and Texas walk away without forcing them to take on substantial amounts of those debts? Plus the liabilities promised but not yet recorded as “debt” because they come due in the future.

It’s going to get worse before it gets better.

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Barry

Bingo.

The current situation cannot continue.

Ironbear

The question is, can republican America win the day, ushering in a fundamental decentralization of the nation, thereby permitting divergent peoples to share one nation, bound by some traditions and some shared beliefs and aspirations?

No.

Or will this clash between very different worldviews lead to the permanent partition of America?

Yes.

Wat. Too succinct? Okay…

There is no going back. We live in post-America now, and have for quite some time. We can’t go back to the America of the Founding any more than we can go back to the bright, shiny, thriving, hopeful and optimistic America of the ’50s. There is no time machine that will take us there.

Conservative thinkers like Smith, Codevilla, and the rest err in thinking that there is somehow some way to dismantle and excise the degeneracy of Progressivism while keeping the worthwhile parts of what Codevilla calls “Republican America”.

There is not.

Post-America is not going to somehow revitalize and go back to being America. We’re in the degenerate phase of a decadent civilization, and, to date, to the best of my knowledge, there has never been a degenerate civilization that has reversed course and revitalized into a thriving, growing, and vital civilization.

Breakup and partition is inevitable at this point. Empires always fall apart.

What grows out of that is no more going to resemble the America of George Washington than the Western Civilization that grew out of the breakup of the Roman Empire resembled Classical Rome.

The primary question at this point, and the one that thinkers like Smith and Codevilla refuse to face squarely – because that would require admitting that they’re spinning their wheels – is whether the breakup and collapse will be slow and gradual over centuries like Rome, or fast and bloody like Yugoslavia.

I don’t believe that quick and peaceful like Czechoslovakia or even the Soviet Union is in the cards for us.

The secondary question is: What comes next? What grows out of rubble?

Smith and Codevilla can’t answer that for the same reason I can’t: the caterpillar can’t envision the butterfly.

What I can state is that it’ll be new, and as different from the former United States as Elizabethan England was from Classical Greece.

TLDR? Stop reading after “Yes.” if your attention span is too short.

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Bill Quick

Agreed. Factor in tech Singularity, and it will likely be black swans as far as the eye can see.

That’s assuming we get through the next 10 years without losing 90% of our population.

Ironbear

Might not be ten years, but if the fertility/low-T and below replacement births issue doesn’t change, we’ll eventually be below 90% regardless of singularity.

Note: That might be auto correcting once the population density drops below a certain point, just as both varmint and predator populations begin dropping following a boom, and then begin to climb again once TFR and overall density drops below a certain level.

Then again, Rat Utopia suggests that at a certain point it becomes irreversible, so your mileage may vary.

Heh. I don’t think we’ll get through the next ten years without everything going pear shaped and all Rwanda x Bosnia, so it may be academic.

Barry

In a word: NO. Trump’s time has passed.

History is being re-written as we speak.

There is not one person out there capable of replacing Trump. I like DeSantis, maybe he can grow into the job.

If that’s your pick, please explain why you believe his choices will be better than Trumps choices. Please explain his economic program and how it will be better that Trump’s. It’s the economy stupid is fundamental. In every way imaginable I see nothing, not one damn thing DeSantis will/can do that Trump didn’t already do.

Give us your replacement and let us know why he is superior to Trump.

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